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U.S. Department of State

Daily Press Briefing

.............. QUESTION: In Chechnya there is a report on the wires now that the Russians have closed the border once again to Ingushetiya, and it's being described as retaliation for an attack by Chechen rebels on Russians in which a large - very large - number of Russian soldiers were killed and maybe later some of the survivors executed.

Do you have anything on any aspect of this?

MR. RUBIN: First of all, the news about the border is news to me. I will have to check that. With respect to the incident that you asked about, let me say that Secretary Albright raised that press report in her conversation with Foreign Minister Ivanov about the reported killing of 250 Russians, and he indicated that that was not the assessment that his military had about what transpired.

She also made very clear in that conversation our strong opposition to a military solution; our concern that the costs of Russia's approach are rising; that there are high civilian causalities; there are refugee flows; and that there is the potential to harm the US-Russian relationship if this path continues. She made that very clear to Foreign Minister Ivanov.

He continues to express his country's approach and their explanation for their approach, and I don't think it would be fair to say there is any change in that regard. Although we've had success in the past in trying to minimize the humanitarian costs particularly in the area of refugees and border closings, we have little success in convincing Russia of the wisdom of pursuing a political solution.

On the mission of Knut Vollebaek, the Foreign Minister of Norway, Foreign Minister Ivanov assured the Secretary that they were going to allow this visit. I understand that Foreign Minister Vollebaek and the Russians have exchanged written communication, and he assured her that they are going to allow the visit. She made very clear that the visit was a commitment that Russia signed up to in Istanbul, and he indicated they intended to fulfill that commitment.

With respect to the specific cases, obviously it is dismaying in the extreme when we read about the growing number of innocent civilians being killed or injured as the fighting intensifies. The reports that you indicate of the border being closed are especially troubling, because it does prevent refugees or displaced persons fleeing the fighting from fleeing to safety.

We've had, as I indicated, some success in the past in explaining and urging the Russians to allow refugees and displaced persons to flee the fighting and to go to safety, and we will be continuing to pursue them. But again, this is at this point just a report about the border and that's mostly what I have.

QUESTION: Did you talk to Ivanov today?

MR. RUBIN: Today. This was just a couple of hours ago.

QUESTION: And so in other words, she asked specifically about these 200 to 250 people?

MR. RUBIN: Yes.

QUESTION: The report also says that there was an attack on refugees by Russian troops in which a bus was raked by submachine gun fire, 40 people killed, and there's witness accounts in the wires.

MR. RUBIN: Again, the reports are troubling about the damage to and the killing of innocent civilians as a result of the intensification of fighting. I think with respect to the broader point of civilians, we have made clear that we are profoundly troubled by the fact that the shelling and bombing has an indiscriminate aspect to it that has caused civilian casualties in large numbers and civilian deaths. We cannot verify that particular report from where we sit and stand, but that kind of report is extremely troubling.

QUESTION: And would these be war crimes, if they - if the Russians actually attacked a bus full of civilians --

MR. RUBIN: I think we've talked about this. There is an intent question versus an indiscriminate question, and I'll have to check that for you.

QUESTION: Because if the Chechen rebels are killing surrendered Russian troops, is that considered a war crime?

MR. RUBIN: Let me say that on the Chechen rebel side that both sides have obligations to respect human right and avoid involving innocent non-combatants. There is no question in our mind that Chechen rebel tactics are doubtlessly contributing to this senseless death and destruction. In our view, all the parties, including the Chechen rebels, should understand that the international community is watching, and we expect both or all the parties concerned to live up to their international obligations.

QUESTION: I just wondered did Ivanov say when the OSCE mission might be allowed to go in?

MR. RUBIN: I think you should - the specific dates are being discussed between Foreign Minister Vollebaek and the Russians. What he assured her was that the visit would take place.

QUESTION: But like when, like two years from now or soon?

MR. RUBIN: The presumption was not that it was two years from now, a presumption that it would be soon and in a timely fashion.

QUESTION: Yes, to follow up, Mr. Rubin, are you advocating or does the State Department advocate that the Russians should negotiate with the Chechen rebels, some of whom they claim to be terrorists? Is this what you're advocating?

MR. RUBIN: No, I've never said that. What we advocate is a political solution. It's not up to us to choose the interlocutors. Frankly, us naming interlocutors only will probably make it less likely that they could be effective interlocutors. There are interlocutors available. There are legitimate leaders in Chechnya, and we urge the Russians to use whatever methods necessary diplomatically to make it possible for discussions to be held and a political solution to be found.

QUESTION: And finally, is there any fear on the part of the United States Government that the Russian military is positioning themselves such that they might be able to enter into the Ukraine or threaten the Ukraine?

MR. RUBIN: Well, I'm not aware of that particular issue. I think it's fair to say that one of the profound concerns that we have about the conflict in the north Caucasus is the potential of it spilling over into Azerbaijan and Georgia, and the instability that could create in the region. I haven't heard any particular concerns expressed about Ukraine, and it strikes me as geographically not relevant.

QUESTION: Geographically not possible. I'm sorry, I was in error, I mean Georgia. That's exactly what you're concerned about.

MR. RUBIN: Well, yes.

QUESTION: Could you comment on accusations by the Uzbek government --

QUESTION: He's on Chechnya.

MR. RUBIN: Is this related to Chechnya?

QUESTION: This is related to Chechnya.

MR. RUBIN: Let's do the related, I love those.

QUESTION: They're saying Chechen rebels are training their youths to help mount a jihad against their government?

MR. RUBIN: Who's this?

QUESTION: The Uzbek Government. And they're also saying that they're beginning to start joint military exercises or joint exercises with the Russians and some of the other Caucasus states to try to stomp out terrorism. I wanted to know if you have a comment on that?

MR. RUBIN: I cannot address specifically the Uzbekistan issue but, broadly speaking, I can say that we do have and have had for some time a lot of worry about the links between international terrorist organizations, including Usama bin Ladin and some of the Chechen Islamic rebels who were engaging in direct attacks against legitimate authority in Ingushetiya. We do believe there are funds and equipment and support that exists between a number of these organizations whose only cause appears to be to oppose the whole civilized world, including rebels in Chechnya and rebels throughout the former Soviet Union in the area you described. There are ties; there are linkages; there is mutual support; and that is deeply troubling to us.

One of the reasons that in the first phase of this conflict we expressed some understanding for what Russia was doing in the summer time was because the fact was that Islamic rebels who could responsibly called engaged in terrorist activities were attacking legitimate authority, and that those rebels did have affiliation with those kinds of people and organizations who have shown no acceptance of the international rules of the road and have shown only contempt for human life.

So that was a concern of ours we share with Russia which is the need to oppose directly organizations, groups and individuals of that nature. There is risk associated with those groups in Chechnya and others throughout the region, and I just don't have any specific data on what I can say to you about Uzbekistan.

QUESTION: Is the US still in support of disassociating the IMF, the second tranche of the IMF with the Chechen war?

MR. RUBIN: At this point the IMF issue is pretty straightforward, and that is that there are - Russia is still completing economic conditions required by its program. Disbursement of the funds depends on fulfillment of these conditions. We'll make our decisions on IMF support based on our national interest including a democratic and stable Russia that is making real progress on economic reform.

We commend Russia for the macroeconomic progress it has made so far, but Russia is still working on structural measures, central bank operations, transparency and financial safeguards pursuant to its relationship with the IMF. So I think the issue that's been out there is at this point a moot point.

QUESTION: On that point, the Secretary said to Ivanov if I quote you right that "Chechnya has the potential to harm US-Russian relations." Did she have in mind the ability of the United States to support more IMF funding?

MR. RUBIN: What's in the Secretary's mind I think I'll leave in the Secretary's mind. What the Secretary said is what I indicated and you repeated, and that is a general statement about the effect that she believes that a prolonged conflict in Chechnya of this kind involving the widespread use of force against - and indiscriminate use of force against innocent civilians could have to our relationship, and I would like to leave it at that.

..................

(The briefing was concluded at 1:50 P.M.)

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