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U.S. Department of State

Daily Press Briefing

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QUESTION: Usama bin Laden has allegedly said that he is willing to leave Afghanistan. I'm wondering if the US has any message for him or for the Taliban.

MR. RUBIN: We've seen press reports to that effect. We have not received any formal communication from the Taliban that Usama bin Laden is intending to leave Afghanistan.

Let me say this: Usama bin Laden can run from Afghanistan, but he can not hide from our determination to pursue justice. The heinous crime for which he has been indicted is an act of terrorism that we have shown we will have a long, long memory: whether it was the Kansi case, whether it was the World Trade Center case, whether it was the Pan Am 103 case which took many, many years. We have shown our determination to go the distance, and ensure that suspected terrorists, indicted terrorists, are brought to justice.

With respect to the resolution, however, let me say that the operative paragraphs of the resolution that the Security Council passed indicate that: The Taliban must promptly cease the provision of sanctuary and training for international terrorists and their organizations; take appropriate effective measures to ensure that the territory under their control is not used for installations and camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts; and also, that Usama bin Laden be turned over to appropriate authorities in a country where he has been indicted, or to appropriate authorities in a country where he will be returned to such a country, or to appropriate authorities in a country where he will be arrested and effectively brought to justice.

So Usama bin Laden may run from Afghanistan, but he cannot hide from the long arm of the law, or the long arm of the Security Council's resolution.

QUESTION: Can you tell us whether, in the meeting earlier this week with the Taliban, this scenario was one of the ideas they put forward?

MR. RUBIN: They put forward a number of ideas, including the idea of a Ulema, which is a council of Islamic scholars who make a judgment under Islamic law. That doesn't meet the civilian justice that has been laid out in the Security Council resolution.

But again, what I indicated to you is that the Security Council resolution - which obviously has gotten the attention of the Taliban, this resolution which will come into effect on November the 14th, which is 30 days from its passage - will cut off flights of the Arianne airlines and freeze assets of Taliban authority. That's obviously gotten their attention, and they are seeking a way to get out from under it.

Certainly, we would prefer a situation where the Taliban did not provide sanctuary for Usama bin Laden but, as far as the requirements of the resolution are concerned, I read them to you.

QUESTION: Same subject: At this point, if the Taliban does choose to in some way hand over bin Laden before the sanctions kick in, is the US prepared to offer anything to the Taliban in terms of recognition or reward?

MR. RUBIN: Our view - first of all, the primary incentive for the Taliban to see that Usama bin Laden is brought to justice is the avoidance of the sanctions of this resolution, which is not a position of the United States; it's a position of the international community. Certainly, a decision by the Taliban to destroy their infrastructure, destroy their support for terrorists and to ensure that Usama bin Laden was brought to justice would improve their standing in the eyes of the world, including the United States.

As far as recognition is concerned, however, we have made clear that we see the need for a broad-based government that includes all the factions in Afghanistan. We have also expressed our outrage about many practices with respect to the treatment of women. So it's not simply a matter of dealing with this issue, and then everything's OK with the United States. At the same time, I would believe that if that were to happen - and it's a very big if and I hope the fact that we're even speculating on it doesn't give you the impression that it's more or less likely to happen - would be a step in the right direction. But there are other issues of concern to us.

QUESTION: You said at the beginning of your answer on this thing that you had seen reports. Has the US Government not had any direct contact with the Taliban concerning this specifically?

MR. RUBIN: I had also said right after that that we have not received any direct communications from the Taliban to that effect.

QUESTION: One of the countries where bin Laden has been indicted is Yemen. Would the US favor him ending up in Yemen?

MR. RUBIN: The resolution says: a country in which he has been indicted, or a country that would ensure that he went to a place that he was indicted. We want him to be brought to justice. We're not going to express preferences for which country he be brought to justice, but it has to be an appropriate country where he would meet our standard of being brought to justice.

QUESTION: The idea that he's floating is that he should basically vanish, secretly, to some unknown location. Can you just say it clearly that, you know, this is completely unacceptable for the United States?

MR. RUBIN: From the United States' standpoint, we will not rest until he is brought to justice. Simply vanishing from Afghanistan is not the same as being brought to justice And he can run from Afghanistan but he can not hide from our determination to bring him to justice.

With respect to the Security Council resolution, I have described very carefully for you what it says, and what it requires.

QUESTION: Could you clarify - you said something about a council, a religious council but not a civilian. Is that one of the ideas that they brought here? I'm lost.

MR. RUBIN: Again, I'd prefer not to go into too much detail about what they said. I referenced an idea that has been out there, as an example of what would not meet the standard of the Security Council resolution or our requirements.

QUESTION: No, but can you say is that one of the ideas they brought to Inderfurth this week, one of the old ideas, albeit?

MR. RUBIN: It's an idea that's out there, yes.

QUESTION: Do you have any idea if Taliban knows where he is going, which country is willing to take him?

MR. RUBIN: I think what I just indicated, in response to your colleague's question, is we've seen press reports about this and, obviously, we've had meetings with the Taliban about various ideas they have. But none of the latest reporting has been communicated to us in any official way, and I just don't want to get into speculation about where he will go when, as far as we're concerned, he's still in Afghanistan and must be brought to justice.

QUESTION: He had connections with the Pakistani military in the past. Do you think State Department is in touch with the military in Pakistan now about it?

MR. RUBIN: We certainly would want to see Pakistan and the new government in Pakistan apply the pressure on the Taliban that would be consistent with being a responsible member of the international community. The international community has just passed a resolution imposing sanctions on the Taliban if they don't have him brought to justice. If Pakistan wants to be considered a responsible member of the international community, then one way in which they could demonstrate that is to use all their influence to bring to bear on the Taliban to comply with this resolution. That would be something we would encourage them to do, but we'll have to see if that yields any success.

QUESTION: Could I go back to the Caucasus for a moment? This morning, the Secretary had a session with the Russian Interior Minister.

MR. RUBIN: Did anyone else, before you do that, have more on Usama bin Laden?

QUESTION: Could you just clarify? A top American official then talked to the Taliban about the Taliban's ideas of to which countries he might be expelled?

MR. RUBIN: I don't know how you could have drawn that conclusion from anything I've said. What I've said is that we met with the Taliban officials. Assistant Secretary Inderfurth discussed with them their ideas on how to deal with the Taliban issue. None of those ideas have yielded a communication from the Taliban to the United States that would meet the conditions of the Security Council resolution.

I am not going to be quoted, or imply to you in any way, the full extent of any conversation we've had with anybody about where he would go next. What I can tell you is that they have not provided us with an official communication -- or an unofficial communication -- that indicates that they are going to see him brought to justice. Short of that, I am not going to speculate as to what ideas and what names they did or didn't mention.

QUESTION: But in other words, they may have mentioned some places to which he might be expelled?

MR. RUBIN: I gave you no indication to write that. I'm just telling you that I'm not going to answer that question.

QUESTION: The question was asked, did you discuss where they might be - he might be expelled to, and your answer - if I have got it down correctly - was, we've had meetings with the Taliban about the ideas they have. That's why I'm just wondering whether that was --

MR. RUBIN: Then I went on to say that I am not going to speculate on what country he may or may not go to after he leaves Afghanistan when, as far as we know, he hasn't left Afghanistan. We want him to be brought to justice in a country that has indicted him, or in a country that will send him to a country that has indicted him. That is our objective, and I think I've been quite clear on that.

I'm not going to get into the details of every potential conversation an American official has had, because it's impossible for me to know all the details of all the conversations American officials have had, speculating as to where he might go if he left a country that he hasn't left yet.

QUESTION: This is still on bin Laden - I'm sorry.

QUESTION: OK. Make it short.

QUESTION: The terrorism office has - no, it isn't short because he's prepared to deal with it. The terrorism office has long ago reported that --

MR. RUBIN: By the way, I do not take a position as to whether it should be short or long, on the remaining discussion of the Taliban.

QUESTION: Well, anyhow - bin Laden and financing --

MR. RUBIN: I wouldn't want to get into the details of that discussion, either.

QUESTION: I don't think we're going to get a lot of details on this. But I think you probably would be in a position to say whether the Secretary will talk to Prince Sultan next week about Saudi financing of bin Laden. By Saudi, I don't mean the government necessarily - Saudi companies, et cetera -- providing funds and that a government audit provided to US officials disclosed some of these specific transactions.

MR. RUBIN: Well, I wouldn't give an excessive amount of credence to that reporting at this time.

QUESTION: Most of it was in the terrorism report already, so I give it credence.

MR. RUBIN: Some of the specifics that you're referring to --

QUESTION: The specifics are new. That's right.

MR. RUBIN: I wouldn't assume that they are correct.

QUESTION: All right.

MR. RUBIN: The question of counter-terrorism cooperation between Saudi Arabia and the United States is one that comes up in every major bilateral discussion that deals with security issues. Therefore, I would expect that Secretary Albright would be discussing with Saudi officials next Friday, when she hosts a lunch for the Saudi defense minister, the full range of counter-terrorism issues. That is normal and expected, but I wouldn't assume that there is a link between that and anything you may or may not have read in the papers today.

QUESTION: All right, specifics aside, though, because as I say, the State Department has reported its concern about links. Can we pad out the sentence? Will she talk to him, or talk to Saudi officials, about US concern that Saudi firms are helping bin Laden?

MR. RUBIN: We always talk about counter-terrorism cooperation. The meeting is a week away and I think it would be appropriate for the Secretary to make some decisions about what she intends to talk about before I make those decisions for her.

QUESTION: One last thing. Was an audit even - the specifics aside?

MR. RUBIN: I have no information on that detail and, frankly, the people that know a lot about this subject that I inquired with this morning didn't know much about it. So that's why I suggest that there may be less there than meets the eye.

QUESTION: I'm sorry, one more. Let's say Usama bin Laden leaves --

MR. RUBIN: Any question that begins, "Let's say," I've already got my answer going: It's called a hypothetical question. But go ahead.

QUESTION: If he leaves Afghanistan, you think situation in Afghanistan and the relations between US and Afghanistan will change?

MR. RUBIN: We would prefer a situation where the Taliban was not harboring an international criminal who is wanted for the killing of Americans and Kenyans and Tanzanians. We would prefer that, and that would, thus, be a step in the right direction. But as far as the Taliban's relations with the international community, the guidelines for that are laid out in the resolution.

..........

QUESTION: Thank you.

(The briefing was concluded 1:43 P.M.)

[end of document]