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U.S. Department of State

Daily Press Briefing

MR. RUBIN: Welcome to the State Department briefing. I have no statements, no announcements, and I still have a cold.

QUESTION: The Administration is talking more openly today about using economic pressure as a means of inducing the Indonesians to back off in East Timor. What can you say about that?

MR. RUBIN: Clearly, the security situation in East Timor continues to deteriorate and we are deeply concerned about that. We understand that the UN has made some decisions about withdrawing personnel. We understand the Australian consulate is also closing. The team of the five UN member states who went to Indonesia will report its findings to the Secretary General and the Security Council in the next 24 hours. We continue to remain in frequent contact with the United Nations, with other concerned governments, both in Washington and through the Secretary's discussions in New Zealand.

In our view, it is absolutely imperative that the government of Indonesia take actions immediately to address the humanitarian disaster and to quickly create an environment for the resumption of the process that had begun. These killings, the forced relocations of East Timorese, and the widespread destruction occurring on the ground must stop immediately and those responsible must be held accountable.

We have been emphasizing for some time to the government of Indonesia that it is responsible for the security situation there. Secretary Albright has made that point on a number of occasions. It is our view that the maintenance of productive relations between Indonesia and the international community depends upon Indonesia adopting a constructive approach towards ending the humanitarian disaster and supporting the UN-administered process by which East Timor will become independent.

How the Indonesian Government deals with the challenges of East Timor will have implications for the capacity of the international community to support Indonesia's economic program. In addition, the effect on productive relations does not hinge solely on government-to-government action; there is a reality here - a country in chaos does not attract foreign investment, foreign visitors, or foreign capital. A government which does not respect the human rights of all is condemned by the international community and that has an undeniable economic effect.

We understand that discussions continue among various governments about this issue and it is our view that Indonesia must take steps now to restore order in East Timor.

QUESTION: So it is your view - it's the US view - that Indonesia can still restore order and the international force isn't now inevitable?

MR. RUBIN: Well, it remains to be seen what occurs. We believe that Indonesia is certainly capable of restoring order if that decision was made and stuck to. It certainly has the capability to do so. Whether it will do so is the open question. It's the $64,000 question whether Indonesia will take the necessary steps. But as Secretary Albright said, if they won't at a minimum they should allow the international community to do what is necessary.

QUESTION: What do you do if, as it seems - I mean, a lot of time has gone by and the Indonesian military and the government still hasn't acted to restore order. If they don't restore order, if they don't allow some sort of international force to come in, what do you do then?

MR. RUBIN: I'm not going to entertain a hypothetical question with two ifs in it. Right now, we are focused on urging, in the strongest possible terms, the Indonesian government to take the action necessary to restore order or, if not, to allow the international community to do so. I am not going to speculate on what happens if neither of those two eventualities occurs.

QUESTION: One of the leaders of the independent East Timor movement, Mr. Jose Ramos Horta held a news conference this morning and he suggested several things: One, that President Habibie is probably not capable of controlling the military and he thinks that --one, would you disagree with that? -- and, two, he is also thinking that the United States still has an influential role to play and in terms of financial and military assistance. Have you maintained all financial assistance to Indonesia?

MR. RUBIN: Let me say I just indicated in response to George's question that Indonesia's relations with the international community, including the United States, are at risk here. As far as military assistance is concerned, we have none. The entire sum, as I have been advised, of our program in that area consists of $476,000 for an expanded IMET program that may or may not be expended. It is not as if we have a military assistance program that could be cut off -- $476,000 is what we are talking about for an expanded IMET program, which probably involves a relatively small number of people coming for a visit and coming to a seminar. So in that area, I don't think there is much to be done.

With respect to the economic program, we do spend tens of millions of dollars on economic development directly with the Indonesian Government and, obviously, the Indonesian government receives substantial billions of dollars in support pursuant to an agreement with the International Monetary Fund. The International Monetary Fund has indicated it is closely monitoring the situation in East Timor.

But far more important than either of those is the investment climate, which is the key to economic stability and economic growth in Indonesia, and that investment climate is severely harmed by a situation such as the one that has been going on in East Timor and can only be restored by the restoration of law and order there.

With respect to the first question, I have forgotten it. Could you repeat it, please?

QUESTION: Does President Habibie have the ability and the power to impose his will on the military?

MR. RUBIN: I suspect that that distinguished individual you mentioned, nor anyone else, knows for sure the answer to that question. We have to operate on the premise that he is the president of the country and he is the civilian leader and he has been saying much the same thing as General Wiranto and others. So it doesn't appear to be a difference of view on its face between President Habibie and General Wiranto. The question is not the capability of Indonesia to restore order; the question is the will of Indonesia to restore order.

QUESTION: Why does this horrible conflict thousands of miles from the main financial centers of Indonesia -- the main sources of business -- why does that affect the investment climate in Indonesia proper?

MR. RUBIN: I think, as a practical reality in the 24-hour global communication age, when people around the world are watching their television sets and seeing the horrors occurring in East Timor and the failure of Indonesia to take action to stop it and, in some cases, the evidence that certain Indonesian military officials are responsible for it, it casts a heavy shadow on the responsibility of a government, and that heavy shadow is cast on those who might be considering investing in a country. That's just a practical reality; it's a fact of life in the international age.

QUESTION: I don't know whether businessmen would agree with that but that's - I don't think they care much about those things in general anyway. Are you not concerned about the impact that the policy you appear to be pursuing, what that will have on American businesses that are already in Indonesia in big ways, and are you hearing from them in any way and what are you telling them?

MR. RUBIN: Our interest in Indonesia is multi-faceted, as it often is with large countries. We have a business interest. We have a national security interest in the sea lanes in that region. We have a human rights interest in the democracy that has been coming to Indonesia. We have a human rights interest in the development in East Timor. We have myriad interests, and what our job is is to try to balance those various interests, and we think that calling on the Indonesian government to restore order -- where tens of thousands of people are being forced from their homes and hundreds are being killed, and perhaps many more because of the limited knowledge that we have -- calling on the restoration of order is a minimum requirement for a government anywhere.

It's not just a question of Indonesia; it's anywhere we would make that view known and businessmen, like in our view, businessmen understand the need for the United States to stand up for that minimum standard and that we have not, to my knowledge, heard complaints from businessmen about holding the Indonesian government responsible for pursuing what it said it would do, that is, provide security in East Timor. Holding a government responsible for its own commitments is something that businessmen may well support because they often have commitments with governments that they would like to see that government live up to as well.

QUESTION: Yesterday the Secretary General of the UN spoke about a 48-hour time period in which Indonesia had to act. Are you all looking at that kind of a period?

MR. RUBIN: I think as a practical matter what we're talking about here is the fact that the five-member UN Security Council delegation is expected to report its findings to the Security Council in the next 24 hours, which would be 48 hours from the time that Kofi Annan, the Secretary General, said that. So that would be a natural deadline for consideration of next steps.

QUESTION: The United States has a very long history with Indonesia and of close ties with the military in particular. I wonder what it says about that investment of time and money and sort of, you know, political determination, that at this time the government, the military, seems unable to respond to -

MR. RUBIN: These questions come up from time to time. I remember during the period when the Indonesian Government was going through its changes and there were questions as to what role the military would play in the aftermath of Suharto and the rise of Habibie, and we think that a lot of the ties that we developed with the Indonesian military at that time were instrumental in being able to head off collapse and chaos in Indonesia at large, and that certainly played a role.

Obviously, right now the Indonesian military has not done what it said it would do and has failed in certain cases, if not participated in, some of the violence. So whatever contacts we may or may not have, obviously haven't yielded the objective of our policy which is quite clear, which is to urge the Indonesian Government and its military to take the necessary steps to restore law and order.

QUESTION: Jamie, there have been a lot of comments from Administration officials here and the Secretary in New Zealand. Can you tell us what Ambassador Roy is doing? Has he seen President Habibie? Is there any direct reporting that the US has from East Timor?

MR. RUBIN: I believe Ambassador Roy has been in touch with a number of top officials in the Indonesian government. I don't have his itinerary. I would be stunned if he hadn't been in touch with top level officials in Indonesia in recent days, but exactly who he has spoken to or not, I will have to get back to you on.

QUESTION: He's still there?

MR. RUBIN: He's still there, yes. Ambassador Gelbard plans to arrive in Indonesia in the coming weeks. Ambassador Roy will stay until shortly before Ambassador Gelbard arrives.

QUESTION: With Ambassador Gelbard, there is no change in plans for him? You might not hold him back as a sign of protest?

MR. RUBIN: Not to my knowledge.

QUESTION: Are you aware of any votes upcoming concerning Indonesia in either the IMF or the World Bank?

MR. RUBIN: I will have to check that for you.

Other topics?

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