DATE=05/15/99
TYPE=ON THE LINE
NUMBER=1-00739
TITLE=THE DEMOCRATIC TRANSITION IN NIGERIA
EDITOR=OFFICE OF POLICY - 619-0037
CONTENT=
THEME: UP, HOLD UNDER AND FADE
ANNCR: ON THE LINE -- A DISCUSSION OF UNITED STATES
POLICIES AND CONTEMPORARY ISSUES.
THIS WEEK, "THE DEMOCRATIC TRANSITION IN
NIGERIA." HERE IS YOUR HOST, ROBERT REILLY.
HOST: HELLO AND WELCOME TO ON THE LINE.
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN TWO DECADES, A
DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT WILL TAKE
OFFICE IN NIGERIA ON MAY 29TH. PRESIDENT-ELECT
OLUSEGUN OBASANJO IS A FORMER GENERAL AND HEAD
OF STATE WHO VOLUNTARILY RETURNED POWER TO
CIVILIANS IN 1979. NIGERIA BEGAN ITS TRANSITION
LAST JUNE AFTER THE DEATH OF DICTATOR SANI
ABACHA. HIS REPLACEMENT, GENERAL ABDULSALAM
ABUBAKAR, WON PRAISE FOR KEEPING HIS PROMISE TO
RETURN NIGERIA TO CIVILIAN RULE. PRESIDENT
OBASANJO WILL FACE FORMIDABLE CHALLENGES AFTER
MANY YEARS OF MISRULE AND RAMPANT CORRUPTION.
JOINING ME TODAY TO DISCUSS THE TRANSITION TO
DEMOCRACY IN NIGERIA AND U.S. POLICY IS UNDER
SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS, THOMAS
PICKERING.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM. LET ME BEGIN BY ASKING
YOU ABOUT YOUR RECENT TRIP TO NIGERIA AND HOW
YOU ASSESS THE CHANCES OF DEMOCRACY REALLY
TAKING ROOT, FINALLY, IN THAT COUNTRY.
PICKERING: I RETURNED FROM THAT TRIP QUITE OPTIMISTIC. I
HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE,
INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT-ELECT AND THE PRESENT
HEAD OF STATE. THE PRESIDENT-ELECT I FOUND VERY
UPBEAT, VERY MUCH HIS OWN THINKER ABOUT THE
FUTURE, BUT FOCUSED ON SOME OF THE KEY ISSUES
THAT ARE NOW BEFORE NIGERIA AND ITS PEOPLE: THE
ISSUES OF CORRUPTION, OF ECONOMIC REFORM AND HOW
ONE CAN IMPROVE THE STANDARD OF LIFE AND LIVING,
AND THE ISSUE OF CONTINUED DEMOCRACY, SOMETHING,
AS YOU KNOW, THAT HE HAS SOME EXPERIENCE WITH.
HE WAS BOTH THE ONLY MILITARY RULER OF NIGERIA
TO TURN IT OVER TO A CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT, AND A
RULER OF NIGERIA WHO SPENT FOUR VERY UNFORTUNATE
AND DIFFICULT YEARS IN JAIL FOR HIS COMMITMENT
TO DEMOCRACY.
HOST: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE CHARACTER OF MR.
OBASANJO BECAUSE SO MUCH RELIES UPON IT.
NIGERIA IS A COUNTRY THAT HAS BEEN TORN BY
STRIFE ALONG A NUMBER OF FAULT LINES -- TRIBAL
LINES: IBO, YORUBA, HAUSA; RELIGIOUS LINES:
MUSLIM, CHRISTIAN; THE DIVISION BETWEEN THE
CIVILIAN AND THE MILITARY. DOES HE HAVE THE
STATURE AND THE CONTACTS TO MELD THAT COUNTRY
BACK TOGETHER ACROSS THOSE FISSURES?
PICKERING: I BELIEVE HE DOES, AND IT IS AN IMPORTANT AND
VERY SERIOUS QUESTION. HE WAS A MILITARY
OFFICER AND A MILITARY LEADER OF HIS COUNTRY
WHEN HE STEPPED DOWN IN 1979 IN FAVOR OF A
CONSTITUTIONALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT. HE IS AN
INDIVIDUAL WHO IS WELL THOUGHT OF
INTERNATIONALLY. HE WAS A FOUNDING MEMBER AND
DIRECTOR OF TRANSPARENCY INTERNATIONAL, AN
ORGANIZATION THAT SUPPORTS DEMOCRACY AND THE
FIGHT AGAINST CORRUPTION. HE WAS ELECTED -- A
YORUBA FROM THE SOUTHWEST -- BY STRONG
MAJORITIES, PARTICULARLY IN THE NORTH AND IN THE
EAST. SO HE IS NATIONALLY WELL THOUGHT OF AS A
LEADER OF HIS COUNTRY. AS YOU KNOW, THERE WERE
IRREGULARITIES IN THE ELECTION, BUT I THINK IT
IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER -- AND CERTAINLY IT WAS
THE IMPRESSION DURING MY SHORT, RECENT STAY IN
NIGERIA -- THAT HE REPRESENTS THE DESIRES AND
THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE OF NIGERIA FOR GOVERNING
THE COUNTRY. THIS WOULD NOT, IN MY VIEW, IN
ANY WAY MINIMIZE THE PROBLEMS THAT HE FACES.
BUT I THINK IT GOES TO SHOW THAT THE THEORY
BEHIND YOUR QUESTION -- THAT HE MAY BE THE RIGHT
MAN, IN THE RIGHT PLACE, AT THE RIGHT TIME -- IS
ONE THAT I THINK IS A GOOD ONE.
HOST: CERTAINLY GENERAL ABUBAKAR WAS THE RIGHT MAN, IN
THE RIGHT PLACE, AT THE RIGHT TIME. HE
CONFOUNDED A LOT OF SKEPTICS IN FOLLOWING A VERY
TIGHT SCHEDULE FOR THIS TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY.
YOU ALSO MET WITH HIM, MR. UNDER SECRETARY?
PICKERING: YES I DID. AND I TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY TO
CONGRATULATE GENERAL ABUBAKAR. I HAD SEEN HIM
IN JULY LAST YEAR, AND HE SET OUT FOR ME WHAT HE
INTENDED TO DO. AND HE EITHER MET OR BEAT, IF I
CAN PUT IT THIS WAY, HIS GOALS AND THE
OBJECTIVES THAT HE HAS SET HIMSELF, OBJECTIVES
WHICH WE FULLY SUPPORTED AND, INDEED, WHICH WE
HAD ENCOURAGED, FOR DEMOCRATIZATION, FOR
ELECTIONS, FOR BRINGING IN A NEW CONSTITUTION,
FOR COMPLETING THE TRANSITION AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE, FOR DEALING WITH HIS MILITARY
COLLEAGUES, WHICH IS NOT AN EASY PROBLEM IN
NIGERIA. AND PROFESSIONALIZATION OF THE
MILITARY IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING HE TOLD ME HE
WAS COMMITTED TO, AND I BELIEVE THAT
PRESIDENT-ELLECT OBASANJO IS COMMITTED TO. SO
THOSE ARE ALL, IN MY VIEW, RATHER GOOD SIGNS,
AGAINST THE BACKDROP OF A LOT OF VERY DIFFICULT
PROBLEMS.
HOST: MR. PICKERING, AFTER MR. OBASANJO WAS RELEASED
FROM PRISON LAST YEAR, HE SPOKE OF THE NIGERIAN
MILITARY, AND I'M QUOTING HIM HERE, AS A
"LIABILITY TO THE NATION," AND AS AN INSTITUTION
WITH "NO CREDIBILITY." YET THE MILITARY IS
PERHAPS THE ONLY NATIONAL INSTITUTION IN
NIGERIA. HOW DO YOU ASSESS ITS FUTURE ROLE IN
NIGERIA AND ALSO PRESIDENT-ELECT OBASANJO 'S
RELATIONSHIP WITH IT? SOME PEOPLE SAY HE IS TOO
CLOSE TO THE MILITARY; OTHERS MAY THINK THAT
VERY CLOSENESS IS AN ASSET IN GETTING THE
MILITARY TO STEP BACK. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
PICKERING: THERE ARE A COUPLE OF GOOD QUESTIONS THERE. IT
IS ONE OF THE TRULY NATIONAL INSTITUTIONS. I
THINK RELIGIOUS BODIES CONSTITUTE OTHERS THAT
TRANSCEND ETHNIC DIVISIONS AND REGIONAL
DIVISIONS. I THINK THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS
SOMETHING OF A NATIONAL INSTITUTION IN NIGERIA,
PARTICULARLY THE SPECIAL FORM OF ENGLISH SPOKEN
IN THE COUNTRY. SO I THINK IT IS A MISTAKE TO
THINK OF NIGERIA AS FRACTURED AND ONLY HELD
TOGETHER BY THE MILITARY. THE MILITARY HAVE, AT
ONE AND THE SAME TIME, BEEN A SOURCE OF UNITY IN
THE COUNTRY, BUT A SOURCE OF CONCERN BECAUSE
THEY HAVE MOVED IN TO TAKE OVER THE COUNTRY AT
VARIOUS TIMES WHEN DEMOCRACY HAD A CHANCE, AND
WAS BEING GIVEN A CHANCE, BUT NOT BEING
EFFECTIVELY USED. AND IN THEIR VIEW, THEREFORE,
THEY DESERVED THE RIGHT TO COME BACK. HAVING
APPOINTED THEMSELVES TO GOVERN THE COUNTRY AT
VARIOUS TIMES IN THE PAST, THEY MADE HUGE
PROFITS, MANY OF THEM IN DOING SO -- NOT ALL OF
THEM. AND NOW THE TRICK IS, OF COURSE, TO SEE
HOW THE MILITARY, AS AN INSTITUTION IN ITS
UNIFYING FORCE, CAN GO BACK TO THE ROLE THAT WAS
ORIGINALLY DESIGNED FOR IT AND WHICH IS
TRADITIONAL FOR MILITARIES -- DEFENDING THE
COUNTRY AND PROVIDING A SOURCE OF SUPPORT FOR
THE COUNTRY'S FOREIGN POLICY. AND IN NIGERIA IN
RECENT YEARS, THE MILITARY HAS PLAYED A VERY
IMPORTANT ROLE IN TRYING TO BRING PEACE AND
STABILITY TO LIBERIA, WHICH WAS WAR-TORN, AND TO
SIERRA LEONE, WHICH CONTINUES TO BE WAR-TORN AND
ABOUT WHICH WE SHARE CONCERNS WITH NIGERIA. AND
I FOUND THAT, WHEN I WAS IN NIGERIA RECENTLY,
THERE WAS AS STRONG SENSE THAT THEY OUGHT TO
BRING THE BOYS HOME. WE SPOKE TO
PRESIDENT-ELECT OBASANJO ABOUT THAT. HE HAD
MADE A PUBLIC COMMITMENT TO KEEP THEM THERE IN
ORDER TO INSURE THAT THE PEACE PROCESS, WHICH IS
ONGOING, WILL BE SUCCESSFUL. THE FINAL POINT ON
THE MILITARY IS THAT THE MILITARY NOW HAVE TO
FIND A PROFESSIONAL NICHE FOR THEMSELVES IN THE
CONTEXT OF THE SERVICES THEY CAN PERFORM FOR THE
COUNTRY. PRESIDENT-ELECT OBASANJO TOLD ME A YEAR
AGO THAT HE WAS INTENT UPON THIS; SO DID GENERAL
ABUBAKAR. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT NOW THAT THE
MILITARY TAKE A LOOK AT THEMSELVES, CLEARY
DESIGN THEMSELVES FOR THE FUTURE -- IF I COULD
PUT IT THAT WAY -- IN TERMS OF THE SIZE AND
SCOPE OF THEIR EFFORT. SOME HAVE TALKED ABOUT
DOWN-SIZING. THAT'S A MAJOR QUESTION ON THE
LIPS OF MANY NIGERIANS AND IN THE MINDS OF MANY
NIGERIANS. THESE WILL BE BIG PROBLEMS TO BE
FACED. BUT I WANT TO ADD THAT WE WILL, ON THE
PART OF THE UNITED STATES, DO WHAT WE CAN TO
HELP BOTH IN TERM OF TECHNOLOGY AND FUNDING,
[AND] IN ADVICE, IF NIGERIANS WANT IT. WE ARE
PREPARED AND ABLE TO HELP, ALSO, IN THE AREA OF
TRAINING IN ORDER TO FIND A WAY TO PROVIDE A
PROFESSIONAL FUTURE FOR THE MILITARY IN THE
SERVICE OF THEIR COUNTRY.
HOST: BY THE WAY, THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME TO ASK YOU
THE QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE
VARIOUS SANCTIONS THAT THE UNITED STATES PLACED
ON NIGERIA BECAUSE OF ANNULLED ELECTIONS UNDER
SANI ABACHA AND OTHER HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES. HAVE
VISA RESTRICTIONS AND THAT KIND OF THING BEEN
LIFTED NOW?
PICKERING: YES, VISA RESTRICTIONS WERE LIFTED LAST YEAR AS
A RESULT OF THE PROGRESS THAT HAD BEEN MADE BY
GENERAL ABUBAKAR IN NIGERIA. THE QUESTION OF
DRUG CERTIFICATION, WHICH IMPOSED A NUMBER OF
SANCTIONS, WAS DEALT WITH THIS YEAR BY A
NATIONAL INTEREST WAIVER. AND I ENCOURAGED
NIGERIANS WHEN I WAS THERE TO THINK OF
CERTIFICATION, TO THINK OF POLICE COOPERATION,
OF EXTRADITION AND OTHER ISSUES TO DEAL WITH
THAT PROBLEM. ALSO, THE LAGOS AIRPORT REMAINS,
AS MANY AMERICAN TRAVELLERS KNOW, ON THE LIST OF
DANGEROUS AIRPORTS BECAUSE OF A FAILURE OF
SECURITY AND SAFETY. WE HAVE SPOKEN WITH
NIGERIANS ABOUT THAT. WE HAVE WORKED WITH THEM
CLOSELY, PROVIDED A LOT OF TECHNICAL ADVICE.
PROGRESS IS BEING MADE AND WE HOPE THAT, WITHIN
MONTHS, THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE CAN BE DEALT WITH.
SO [THERE IS] REAL PROGRESS IN LAGOS, BUT THEY
ARE NOT THERE YET. SO LAGOS AIRPORT IS ON THE
LIST OF DANGEROUS AIRPORTS AND AMERICAN
CARRIERS, AS A RESULT OF THAT, ARE NOT SERVING
NIGERIA, SOMETHING THE NIGERIANS HAVE URGED US
TO DO AND WHICH WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON.
HOST: YOU MENTIONED PRESIDENT-ELECT OBASANJO'S
ASSOCIATION WITH THE GROUP, TRANSPARENCY
INTERNATIONAL. AND IT WAS TRANSPARENCY
INTERNATIONAL THAT SAID LAST YEAR THAT NIGERIA
WAS THE MOST CORRUPT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. HOW
CAN THE PRESIDENT-ELECT BEGIN TO APPROACH
CORRUPTION THAT HAS RUN THAT DEEPLY -- ONE OF
THE LARGEST PETROLEUM PRODUCING COUNTRIES IN THE
WORLD WHERE THERE ARE HORRENDOUS GAS LINES?
WHAT IS THE MOST URGENT THING HE NEEDS TO DO TO
ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM?
PICKERING: HE HAS TOLD ME THAT THIS IS AT THE TOP OF HIS
AGENDA, AND I'M DELIGHTED. I BELIEVE HIM. HE'S
BEEN COMMITTED ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE FOR A
LONG TIME. HIS ROLE AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF
TRANSPARENCY INDICATES HIS BONA FIDES AND HIS
SERIOUS INTENTIONS TO MOVE AHEAD ON THIS
PARTICULAR QUESTION. I THINK THAT CORRUPTION
INVOLVES THE OPPOSITE OF GOOD GOVERNANCE. SO HE
HAS TO ASSURE GOOD GOVERNANCE. HE HAS TO ASSURE
RESPONSIBILITY OF CIVIL SERVANTS IN THEIR JOBS.
HE HAS TO ASSURE THE CODE OF ETHICS AND CONDUCT.
HE HAS TO ASSURE THAT THERE IS ADEQUATE
ENFORCEMENT FOR THOSE WHO STRAY FROM THE PATH.
AND HE HAS TO CREATE A CULTURE -- SOMETHING THAT
UNFORTUNATELY HAS DISAPPEARED IN NIGERIA -- OF
PUBLIC SERVICE FOR THE SAKE OF SERVING THE
PUBLIC, RATHER THAN FOR THE SAKE OF SERVING THE
PERSON WHO IS DOING THE SERVING OF THE PUBLIC.
THESE WILL TAKE A LOT OF WORK AND A LOT OF
EFFORT. I THINK HE IS PREPARED TO DO THAT.
THAT IS THE COMMITMENT HE HAS TOLD ME HE MUST
MAKE. HE UNDERSTANDS IT; HE UNDERSTANDS THAT
CORRUPTION EATS AWAY AT THE FABRIC OF A COUNTRY,
IF IT IS NOT DEALT WITH. PRESIDENT-ELECT
OBASANJO HAS TOLD ME THAT THIS IS WHAT HE IS
INTENT UPON DOING. WE WILL GIVE HIM HELP AND
RUNNING ROOM TO TRY TO DO IT. AND CERTAINLY, WE
WILL WISH HIM THE BEST OF LUCK IN THIS, PERHAPS,
MOST DIFFICULT OF HIS TASKS AHEAD, CERTAINLY IN
THE NEAR TERM.
HOST: I KNOW, MR. PICKERING, THAT GENERAL ABUBAKAR
TRIED TO GET A START ON ECONOMIC REFORM BY
SAYING THAT CERTAIN STATE MONOPOLIES WOULD BE
ABOLISHED BY TRYING TO INTRODUCE SOME
COMPETITION INTO THE ECONOMY. AND HE WAS
PROPOSING TO SELL OFF A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF
CERTAIN STATE ASSETS. WAS THERE ANY PROGRESS IN
ECONOMIC REFORM UNDER GENERAL ABUBAKAR, AND WILL
OLUSEGUN OBASANJO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THOSE
REFORMS?
PICKERING: THERE WAS SOME. THE GAS LINES YOU SPOKE ABOUT
ARE NOT ELIMINATED. SOME HAVE TOLD ME THEY ARE
REDUCED. THAT REQUIRES A VERY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT
OF REPAIR TO THE NIGERIAN REFINERIES THAT WERE
NOT PRODUCING UP TO STANDARD. BUT IT ALSO
REQUIRES A CHANGE IN MINDSET, BECAUSE THERE WERE
PEOPLE WHO WERE PROFITING FROM IMPORTS WHO
REALLY DID NOT CARE ABOUT BRINGING THOSE
REFINERIES UP TO STANDARD, BECAUSE IT CUT INTO
THE PROFITS THEY WERE MAKING. GENERAL ABUBAKAR
MOVED AHEAD TO BEGIN THE PROCESS OF REPAIRING
THE REFINERIES, AND ON PRIVATIZATION. GENERAL
OBASANJO TELLS ME HE WANTS TO CONTINUE WITH THE
PROGRAM. IT IS AN EXTREMELY IMPORTANT ONE.
THERE IS DISTRUST IN NIGERIA ABOUT THE VALUATION
OF THOSE ASSETS AND SOME DISTRUST ABOUT FOREIGN
HOLDINGS OF THEM. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY RUN
PROHIBITIVELY DEEP. AND I DO BELIEVE THAT
PRIVATIZATION CAN HELP THE NIGERIANS IN TERMS OF
THEIR CASH FLOW AND MEETING SOME OF THE MOST
IMMEDIATE PROBLEMS THEY HAVE IN SHORT FALLS IN
REVENUE AGAINST BUDGET. I THINK
COUNTER-CORRUPTION WILL HELP IN THAT A GREAT
DEAL. I THINK THEY NEED A SERIOUS EFFORT TO
LOOK AT THE OIL INDUSTRY AND ITS ROLE IN NIGERIA
AND THE REGULATION OF OIL INCOME, AND TO MAKE
SURE THAT ALL OF THE OIL INCOME FINDS ITS WAY
INTO THE GOVERNMENT BUDGET, AND NOT INTO PRIVATE
POCKETS. ALL OF THOSE ARE VERY IMPORTANT STEPS
AND WILL HELP ENORMOUSLY IN MOVING AHEAD IN
REFORMING THE ECONOMY.
HOST: AMBASSADOR, WHEN YOU SAY THE UNITED STATES WILL
HELP IN THIS PROCESS, EXACTLY WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMIC REFORM, WHAT KIND OF
HELP CAN WE SUPPLY?
PICKERING: WE CAN SUPPLY BOTH TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, WHICH I
BELIEVE CAN BE VERY USEFUL, SOME ADDED FUNDING
FOR PROGRAMS IN THE AREAS OF TRANSPORTATION,
ENERGY, MILITARY REFORM, CONTINUE OUR WORK IN
THE HEALTH SECTOR, IN THE STRUGGLE AGAINST AIDS
AND SO ON. IT IS THAT COMBINATION. PERHAPS WE
CAN OFFER HELP THROUGH SOME OF THE AMERICAN
NATIONAL PARTY ASSISTANCE INSTITUTIONS, THE
N-D-I [NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE] AND I-R-I
[INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE]. HELP, FOR
EXAMPLE, FOR THE NEW LEGISLATURES AT ALL THREE
LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT WHO WOULD PERHAPS REQUIRE,
FOR THEIR INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS, TRAINING, SOME
INCREASED FAMILIARITY WITH THE LEGISLATIVE
PROCESS, THE ROLE OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.
SOMETHING HAS BEEN ABSENT IN NIGERIA FOR A
NUMBER OF YEARS: HOW EXECUTIVE-LEGISLATIVE
RELATIONS CAN HELP IN PURSUING COMMON PLATFORMS
AND PROGRAMS.
HOST: WHAT SORT OF FEEL DID YOU GET IN NIGERIA FROM
THE SUCCESS OF THESE ELECTIONS THAT WERE HELD AT
EVERY LEVEL -- THE REGIONAL LEVEL FOR LOCAL
LEGISLATURES, GOVERNORS, AND THEN THE NATIONAL
LEGISLATURE AND THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION? HAS
THIS CREATED A MOOD OF SOME OPTIMISM AND SOME
CONFIDENCE IN THE FUTURE?
PICKERING: I THINK IT HAS, AND I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO
SPEAK WITH OUR AID [AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL
DEVELOPMENT] PEOPLE, WHO HAVE BEEN ALREADY
RUNNING SEMINARS WITH THESE GROUPS OF
LEGISLATORS. AND IT IS INTERESTING, BECAUSE MANY
OF THEIR ASPIRATIONS FOR THE FUTURE OF THE
COUNTRY MATCH THOSE THAT THE OUTSIDE WORLD HOLDS
FOR NIGERIA. ECONOMIC REFORM AND A FIGHT AGAINST
CORRUPTION ARE HIGH ON THE LIST. DEMOCRACY
BUILDING IS HIGH ON THE LIST. FOREIGN
INVESTMENT SEEMS TO BE QUITE HIGH ON THE LIST.
SO THAT IS INTERESTING IN THAT THESE
LEGISLATORS, MANY OF THEM AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL,
BUT ALSO AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO
HAVE SOME STATURE, EITHER IN THEIR LOCAL REGIONS
OR NATIONALLY, WHO ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN BRING TO
THIS PARTICULAR PROCESS SOME EXPERIENCE AND SOME
WISDOM. THIS WAS ALL VERY ENCOURAGING TO US.
OBVIOUSLY, IT IS STILL VERY NEW. THERE ARE
THIRTY-SIX STATE LEGISLATURES, THOUSANDS OF
LOCAL COMMUNITY ASSEMBLIES, AND, OF COURSE, THE
NEW NATIONAL PARLIAMENT WITH TWO HOUSES TO BRING
TOGETHER AND GET FUNCTIONING AFTER THE
INAUGURATION, A HERCULEAN TASK.
HOST: SPEAKING OF DEMOCRACY BUILDING, AMBASSADOR,
THERE ARE SEVERAL CRITICAL ELEMENTS TO A
FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY THAT NIGERIA, AT THE
PRESENT MOMENT, DOES NOT HAVE. ONE IS A MIDDLE
CLASS. ANOTHER IS A FREE PRESS. I KNOW THAT
SOME OF NIGERIA'S PRESS IS STATE-CONTROLLED.
OTHER PRESS IS SORT OF PARTY PRESS. AND MANY OF
ITS MEMBERS RECEIVING A BROWN ENVELOPE WITH
EMOLUMENTS IN IT FOR WRITING CERTAIN KINDS OF
STORIES IS STANDARD PRACTICE. WHAT DO YOU THINK
IS GOING TO BE DONE TO FACE THOSE TWO VERY
SERIOUS PROBLEMS -- ESTABLISHING FREE PRESS IN
NIGERIA AND BEGINNING WITH THE FORMATION OF A
MIDDLE CLASS?
PICKERING: I THINK THAT THERE IS A LARGE AND GROWING MIDDLE
CLASS IN NIGERIA, WHICH HAS BEEN ON HARD TIMES
RECENTLY. BUT I THINK THEY WILL EXPAND AS THE
ECONOMY EXPANDS, AND I THINK THEY WILL PROVIDE
THE BASIS FOR SOME OF THESE NEW INSTITUTIONS, IN
THE SENSE THAT MANY OF THEM WILL GO INTO
POLITICAL LIFE, OTHERS WILL BE VERY INFLUENTIAL
IN NATIONAL POLITICAL LIFE. THE FREE PRESS HAS
BEEN A PROBLEM IN NIGERIA, MORE IN MY VIEW
ASSAILED BY TWO SETS OF ACTIVITIES. SOME
GOVERNMENT RESTRICTIONS AND HEAVY-HANDEDNESS
UNDER THE MILITARY. A LOT OF THAT HAS
DISAPPEARED UNDER GENERAL ABUBAKAR. AND THEN
THE PAYING FOR STORIES, THAT IS THE POSITIVE
IMPOSITION THROUGH FUNDING OF PARTICULAR VIEWS
THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE
PRESS OR THE PUBLIC AT LARGE. THAT'S HARDER,
BUT I THINK WE NEED TO WORK WITH THE PRESS IN
PROGRAMS OF INDIVIDUAL PRESS RESPONSIBILITY.
I'M QUITE PLEASED THAT THERE ARE STILL
INDIVIDUALS THAT I KNOW WORKING IN THE NIGERIAN
PRESS WHO ARE RESISTANT TO THAT KIND OF
BEHAVIOR. A SMALL GROUP, BUT AN IMPORTANT ONE.
AND I HOPE THEY WILL BE THE CENTERPIECE FOR
BUILDING ON THE FUTURE OF A TRULY FREE AND
COMPETITIVE PRESS OF NIGERIA. NIGERIA IS A
SOCIETY THAT, IN THE CITIES IN PARTICULAR, IS
HEAVILY DEPENDENT ON NEWSPAPER NEWS. A WIDE
NUMBER OF PAPERS, COMPETITION, SHOULD HELP.
COMPETITION SHOULD OBVIOUSLY INVOKE ITS OWN
STANDARDS, IF I COULD PUT IT THAT WAY, FOR THE
PRESS. AND I HOPE THAT THE NEWSPAPER READERS
WILL REWARD PEOPLE IN WHOM THEY TRUST TO PROVIDE
THE TRUTH AND THE INSIDE INFORMATION, RATHER
THAN THE PAID-FOR PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS IN THE
DISGUISE OF A NEWS STORY.
HOST: AMBASSADOR, LET ME CLOSE BY ASKING YOU THE
QUESTION: WHAT KIND OF ROLE IN AFRICA DO YOU
SEE FOR A DEMOCRATIC NIGERIA.? YOU ALLUDED
EARLIER TO ONE VERY IMPORTANT ROLE THAT IT IS
ALREADY PLAYING, AND HAS BEEN PLAYING, AS THE
KEY PART OF THE PEACEKEEPING FORCE IN SIERRA
LEONE.
PICKERING: I WOULD SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS. NIGERIA IS A
REGIONAL POWER HOUSE. AND EVEN IN THE BAD DAYS
OF THE MILITARY AND THE SOMEWHAT RECLUSIVE DAYS
OF GENERAL ABACHA, IT STILL PLAYED A IMPORTANT
ROLE IN WEST AFRICA. PRESIDENT OBASANJO LOOKS
AT THE FUTURE OF NIGERIA'S ROLE, AS HE TOLD ME,
AS ONE IN WHICH EACH OF THE STATES WILL PLAY A
PARTICIPATORY ROLE, THAT IT WILL NOT ALL FALL ON
THE SHOULDERS OF ONE LARGE STATE TO CARRY ALL OF
THE FUNDING AND ALL OF THE PEACEKEEPING. AND HE
HOPES TO DO THAT, AND HE HOPES TO CONSULT VERY
CLOSELY WITH HIS FELLOW LEADERS IN WEST AFRICA
AND BUILD A POLITICS OF CONSENSUS IN WEST
AFRICA, WITH NIGERIA CONTINUING TO PLAY A
LEADERSHIP ROLE DUE TO ITS SIZE AND ECONOMY. I
THINK NIGERIA HAS RECUSED ITSELF, UNFORTUNATELY,
FROM A MORE VIGOROUS AFRICAN ROLE OVER RECENT
YEARS UNDER THE MILITARY GOVERNMENTS. AND THERE,
I THINK, THE UNITED STATES AND OTHERS WOULD LOOK
FOR NIGERIA TO PLAY THAT ROLE. THERE ARE MANY
DIFFICULTIES AND DISPUTES IN AFRICA. NIGERIA IN
THE PAST HAS PLAYED A TRADITIONAL ROLE IN
DISPUTE SETTLEMENT AND IN DEALING WITH PROBLEMS
ON THE CONTINENT THAT WERE LIKELY TO END IN
CONFLICT. THIS CAN BE IMPORTANT. NIGERIA HAS A
WORLD-CLASS STATE WITH A HUNDRED AND TWENTY OR
MORE MILLION PEOPLE. IT'S OUR SECOND LARGEST
OIL SUPPLIER ON THE AFRICAN COAST, AND CERTAINLY
A MAJOR WORLD ECONOMIC STATE IN THE OIL
EXPORTING SENSE. NIGERIA WILL, I HOPE, LOOK AT
A ROLE AT THE UNITED NATIONS, A ROLE IN
INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS THAT IS MORE
BEFITTING ITS SIZE AND NATURAL POSITION IN THE
SCHEME OF THINGS.
HOST: I'M AFRAID THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE THIS
WEEK. I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR GUEST -- UNDER
SECRETARY OF STATE THOMAS PICKERING -- FOR
JOINING ME TO DISCUSS U.S. POLICY AND THE
TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY IN NIGERIA. THIS IS
ROBERT REILLY FOR ON THE LINE.
14-May-99 12:19 PM EDT (1619 UTC)
NNNN
Source: Voice of America
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