[Senate Hearing 111-602]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office]
S. Hrg. 111-602
NOMINATION OF HON. JANET A. NAPOLITANO
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
of the
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
NOMINATION OF HON. JANET A. NAPOLITANO TO BE SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF HOMELAND SECURITY
JANUARY 15, 2009
__________
Available via http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/index.html
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
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COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman
CARL LEVIN, Michigan SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii TOM COBURN, Oklahoma
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware JOHN McCAIN, Arizona
MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio
MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada
CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
JON TESTER, Montana
ROLAND W. BURRIS, Illinois
MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado
Michael L. Alexander, Staff Director
Beth M. Grossman, Senior Counsel
Kristine V. Lam, Professional Staff Member
Brandon L. Milhorn, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel
Robert L. Strayer, Minority Director of Homeland Security Affairs
Jennifer L. Tarr, Minority Counsel
Trina Driessnack Tyrer, Chief Clerk
Patricia R. Hogan, Publications Clerk and GPO Detailee
Laura W. Kilbride, Hearing Clerk
C O N T E N T S
------
Opening statements:
Page
Senator Lieberman............................................ 1
Senator McCain............................................... 5
Senator Collins.............................................. 7
Senator Voinovich............................................ 17
Senator McCaskill............................................ 19
Senator Akaka................................................ 22
Senator Tester............................................... 25
Senator Landrieu............................................. 27
Senator Levin................................................ 30
Senator Carper............................................... 36
WITNESSES
Thursday, January 15, 2009
Hon. Jon Kyl, a U.S. Senator from the State of Arizona........... 6
Hon. Janet A. Napolitano to be Secretary, U.S. Department of
Homeland Security.............................................. 10
Alphabetical List of Witnesses
Kyl, Hon. Jon:
Testimony.................................................... 6
Napolitano, Hon. Janet A.:
Testimony.................................................... 10
Prepared statement........................................... 45
Biographical and financial information....................... 50
Responses to pre-hearing questions........................... 72
Letter from the Office of Government Ethics with an
attachment................................................. 168
Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record........... 170
APPENDIX
Letter to Hon. Michael Chertoff from Hon. Janet A. Napolitano,
November 5, 2007............................................... 213
Letter to Hon. Michael Mukasey from Hon. Janet A. Napolitano,
October 1, 2008................................................ 215
Letters of support for Hon. Janet A. Napolitano.................. 217
NOMINATION OF HON. JANET A. NAPOLITANO
----------
THURSDAY, JANUARY 15, 2009
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Homeland Security
and Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joseph I.
Lieberman, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Lieberman, Levin, Akaka, Carper,
Landrieu, McCaskill, Tester, Collins, McCain, and Voinovich.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN LIEBERMAN
Chairman Lieberman. The hearing will come to order. Good
morning. Welcome to this hearing, which is called to consider
President-elect Obama's nomination of Arizona Governor Janet
Napolitano to become the Nation's third Secretary of Homeland
Security.
Governor, I welcome you today. I want to say that the fact
that you have asked not just Senator Kyl but Senator McCain to
introduce you today is just another sign of your personal
confidence and courage. [Laughter.]
It is a great pleasure to welcome our dear friends John
McCain and Jon Kyl. It obviously speaks well of what Arizona
thinks about you as you assume this new responsibility.
I personally believe that Governor Napolitano is a superb
choice to lead our Nation's domestic security agency and help
in its ongoing transition from a start-up operation to a mature
agency whose component parts work together so well that the
whole is much greater than the sum of those parts. This
nomination has received support from an assortment of different
groups and individuals whose names I will put into the
record.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ The letters of support for Governor Napolitano appear in the
Appendix on page 217.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me just say a few words by way of setting the scene.
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) was created 6
years ago, its origins coming out of this Committee, which was
then the Governmental Affairs Committee. It was created,
obviously, in direct response to the Islamist terrorist attacks
against the United States on September 11, 2001.
Former Homeland Security Secretaries, Tom Ridge and Michael
Chertoff, have done great work, I think, in leading the
Department through the growing pains of its early years and
making progress in turning this initial amalgam of 22 agencies
and now more than 200,000 employees--all with different
cultures and missions--into a single Department with a singular
mission, which is to protect the safety of the American people.
Now, Governor, as the Department goes through its first
Presidential transition, we have confidence that you will build
on the work of your predecessors.
To help advance this transition, Senator Collins and I
intend to bring before this Committee a comprehensive
authorization bill for the Department of Homeland Security that
outlines key areas of improvement we think can make the
Department more efficient and effective in its various
missions, and we will also recommend levels of funding for the
Department in that authorization bill. We hope that this can
become an annual exercise in which we will work with you to
both become advocates and authorizers for a sufficient level of
funding for this critical Department, but also to use the
authorization bill as a way to improve the authority and
functioning of the Department.
I do want to say parenthetically in that regard that an
important milestone in the history of the Department of
Homeland Security was reached just a few days ago when the
National Capital Planning Commission gave its final approval
for a new Department of Homeland Security headquarters on the
St. Elizabeths campus, which means that this Department, which
is meant to function as a unity but has been spread throughout
the capital area, now will have a house in which you can work
together.
Six years into the Department's mission, and in spite of
the significant improvements in its performance in protecting
the safety and security of the American people, there are still
those who believe that the Department should be chopped up and
its parts shipped off to other agencies. And there is always a
prospect, as we go through the first presidential transition of
the Department, that those who have those aims will attempt to
act on them now.
I believe that is exactly the wrong way to go. It makes no
sense. It would take us back to where we were, after all, on
September 11, 2001, when the terrorists exploited our national
vulnerability, caused by the balkanization of our many homeland
security agencies, to attack and kill 3,000 people.
Some, as you know, have proposed removing the Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) from the Department and
making it a free-standing agency. I will do all I can--and I
know Senator Collins and I will be working once again side by
side on that--to stop such disintegration because we feel so
strongly that FEMA benefits. Not only has it been improved
dramatically post-Katrina, but it benefits from the cooperative
atmosphere and environment in which it works with the other
relevant disaster response and preparedness agencies in the
Department of Homeland Security.
I am going to include the rest of my statement in the
record. I want to simply say for the record--and I will be
asking questions about this--we have some priorities and
unfinished business that we have discussed with you, and we
want to work together with you on those priorities. One is,
though we have dramatically improved the security of aviation
transportation post-September 11, 2001, we have not done as
well in non-aviation transportation--rail and transit. That is
unfinished business which we want to work on together.
Our preparedness to both deter and, God forbid, respond to
an attack with weapons of mass destruction (WMD), particularly
biological weapons--we have raised our guard, but we are not
where we need to be. We want to work with you on that. The same
is true of chemical security where the existing legislation
needs to be reauthorized in the year ahead.
And, of course, as the Secretary of Homeland Security, you
preside over the immigration and border security agencies of
our government, and there is obviously a lot that we need to do
together to improve the functioning of those agencies and the
enforcement of law.
Bottom line, we welcome you. We look forward to a good
exchange of ideas here today. We are going to work very hard to
get this nomination of yours to a point where it can be
confirmed by the Senate as soon after the President-elect is
inaugurated next Tuesday as possible. I think we all on this
Committee, and I hope people generally, feel that getting you
into the office of Secretary of Homeland Security today is as
important as seating the Secretary of Defense to the security
of our country.
I thank you very much for your willingness to take on this
assignment.
I will now call on the Ranking Member, Senator Susan
Collins.
PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR LIEBERMAN
Good morning and welcome to this hearing to consider the nomination
of Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano to become the Nation's third
Secretary of Homeland Security.
Welcome Governor. And I also want to welcome my good friends and
colleagues--and your home State Senators, John McCain and Jon Kyl--who
are here this morning to speak on your behalf.
I believe Governor Napolitano is a superb choice to lead our
Nation's domestic security agency and help in its ongoing transition
from a start-up operation to a mature agency whose component parts work
together so well that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Governor Napolitano brings the management experience that comes
from being the chief executive of a fast-growing State.
She knows how to work with officials and first responders at all
levels of government--a crucial qualification for this job where
success is impossible without cooperation across the Nation at the
Federal, State and local levels.
Governor Napolitano also comes from a border State--Arizona sharing
a border of more than 370 miles with Mexico. That has given the
governor front-line experience on some of the challenges facing her
department, like illegal immigration and border security.
As a former Attorney General of Arizona as well as a former U.S.
Attorney, Governor Napolitano also brings hands-on law enforcement
experience to the job.
I believe these skills will serve the Governor well in her
demanding new job--as do the International Association of Fire
Fighters, the International Association of Fire Chiefs, the
International Association of Chiefs of Police, the Major City Chiefs,
the National Emergency Management Association, the International
Association of Emergency Managers, and 31 State Attorneys General.
I commend President-elect Obama for his excellent choice.
I also have a letter from House Homeland Security Committee
Chairman Benny Thompson, endorsing your nomination, and I will make
that part of the record.
The Department of Homeland Security was created 6 years ago in
response to the attacks of September 11, 2001.
Former Homeland Security Secretaries, Tom Ridge and Michael
Chertoff, did great work in leading the department through the growing
pains of its early years and made progress in turning this initial
amalgam of 22 agencies and 200,000 employees--all with different
cultures and missions--into a single department with a singular mission
to protect the safety of the American people.
Now, Governor, as the department goes through its first
presidential transition, we have confidence you will build on the work
of your predecessors.
To advance this transition, this Committee intends to introduce a
comprehensive authorization bill for the Department of Homeland
Security that outlines key areas of improvement we think can make DHS
more efficient and effective in its various missions, and recommend
levels of funding for the Department.
Senator Collins and I first introduced a DHS authorization bill in
the final days of the 110th Congress and will make it a priority of
this committee in the 111th Congress. We look forward to working
closely with you as we move to get a bill in front of the full Senate
this year.
An important milestone in DHS history was reached recently when the
National Capital Planning Commission gave its final approval for a new
DHS Headquarters on the St. Elizabeths campus.
Nonetheless, 6 years into the Department's mission, and in spite of
its significant improvements in its performance, there are still those
who believe DHS should be chopped up and its parts shipped off to other
agencies.
I believe that is exactly the wrong way to go. It makes no sense.
It would take us back to where we were on September 11, 2001, when the
terrorists exploited the vulnerability caused by the separation and
balkanization of our many homeland security agencies to attack and kill
3,000 people.
Some have proposed removing FEMA from DHS and making it a free-
standing agency. I will do all I can to stop such disintegration.
When Congress passed the Post-Katrina Emergency Management Reform
Act in 2006, we built a new, stronger FEMA, giving it a renewed mission
and greater stature and resources.
Moving it out now would weaken FEMA, since the agency would no
longer have the same ready access to the resources and expertise of the
rest of DHS--and it would make it more, not less, difficult to
coordinate in a disaster.
In the new session of Congress, this Committee will also act on the
recommendations of the Commission on the Prevention of WMD
Proliferation and Terrorism.
That report, released in December, opened with this chilling
warning: ``Unless the world community acts decisively and with great
urgency, it is more likely than not that a weapon of mass destruction
will be used in a terrorist attack somewhere in the world by the end of
2013.''
The commission found that it would be far easier for terrorists to
get their hands on biological weapons than nuclear weapons and easier
also to use them to attack us.
Much legitimate biological research takes place in very poorly
secured or totally unsecured facilities and, while this work can lead
to medical and scientific breakthroughs, the same knowledge and
expertise can also be used to build weapons of mass bio-terror that
literally threaten millions of lives.
We need to craft a strong homeland and global response to protect
us from this growing danger.
Governor Napolitano, as Secretary of Homeland Security, you will
have a key role to play in working with other agencies--the Departments
of Health and Human Services (HHS), Defense (DOD), Justice (DOJ),
Treasury, and Agriculture (USDA), and others who still have significant
responsibilities for key aspects of homeland security.
In the Homeland Security Act, Congress established the Homeland
Security Council to facilitate that critical coordination. Today, there
is legitimate concern about how well that process is working,
especially regarding the respective roles of the Homeland Security
Council (HSC) and the National Security Council (NSC).
Yours will be an important voice in determining how improvements
are to be made, and I look forward to working with you and other
members of the President's national security team to make sure that
homeland security receives the attention it needs amidst several
challenges to our Nation's overall security.
I fully support your nomination and look forward to working with
you in the years ahead.
Senator Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I know that Senator McCain and Senator Kyl
have very busy schedules, so I would be willing to allow them
to do their introductory statements prior to my giving my
opening statement, if that would be helpful to them. I still
want to give my statement, of course. [Laughter.]
But having them proceed I am sure would help them.
Chairman Lieberman. That is very gracious of you. Do our
colleagues accept the offer? Senator McCain, welcome.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCAIN
Senator McCain. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,
Senator Collins, for your usual gracious consideration. I
welcome the opportunity, and with great pleasure, to introduce
along with my friend and colleague, Senator Kyl, Governor Janet
Napolitano, to the Committee.
Janet Napolitano has served Arizona as a U.S. Attorney,
Attorney General, and currently as the State's 21st Governor.
In 2005, she was voted one of America's top five governors by
Time Magazine, which stated, ``Positioning herself as a no-
nonsense, pro-business centrist, she has worked outside party
lines since coming to office.''
I agree wholeheartedly with Time's assessment, and I am
confident she will use this same no-nonsense attitude toward
running our Nation's third largest Department that employs over
200,000 men and women who work each day to protect our
homeland.
Not only does Janet Napolitano possess a no-nonsense
attitude, she also possesses remarkable stamina and unlimited
energy. She has hiked the Himalayas, climbed Mount Kilimanjaro,
and battled cancer. She will need this same energy to lead a
Department that was created 5 years ago through the merger of
22 agencies. After some time on the job, she may find climbing
Mount Kilimanjaro far easier than navigating the halls of the
Department.
One of the major challenges facing the Department and our
country is the issue of illegal immigration. If the new
Administration chooses to tackle this difficult issue, I stand
ready to assist in their efforts by working closely with this
outstanding nominee. I know that Governor Napolitano would
provide this Administration and Congress with a unique
perspective as it attempts to tackle comprehensive immigration
reform.
Governor Napolitano explained her experience far more
eloquently than I could when she testified before the House
last April. She said, ``Unlike many in Washington, I have
actually walked, flown by helicopter, and even ridden a horse
over much of the border's rough, rugged desert and mountainous
terrain.''
She went on to say, ``I have toured the drug tunnels where
cocaine and marijuana enter our country by the ton. I have seen
the sewers where children who are crossing the border alone
sleep at night. And I have seen the campsites strewn with
abandoned clothing, human waste, and refuse.''
As the U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona, she went
on to say, ``I have supervised the prosecution of more than
6,000 immigration felonies and broken up drug-trafficking,
human-smuggling, and money-laundering rings. As governor, I
have sought to continue to provide for the vital health care,
education, and infrastructural needs of the Nation's fastest
growing State, all while shouldering the disproportionate
burden of the Federal Government's inability to control the
borders and provide a meaningful plan for immigration reform.''
Clearly, Arizona's loss is the Nation's gain. We are very
fortunate to have such a dedicated, capable person in public
service. I thank you, Governor Napolitano.
I commend the President-elect for selecting such an
outstanding and capable individual to fill this important
leadership position and look forward to working with Governor
Napolitano in her new role.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks, Senator McCain, for that very
strong statement on behalf of the nominee.
Senator Kyl, welcome. Good to see you.
TESTIMONY OF HON. JON KYL, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
ARIZONA
Senator Kyl. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the
Committee. I, too, am pleased to join my colleague Senator
McCain in introducing Arizona's Governor, Janet Napolitano, to
be the next Secretary of the Homeland Security Department. She
will bring a wealth of experience to the Department,
particularly having served as governor of a border State which
is dealing, as Senator McCain said, with the critical problem
of illegal immigration.
Governor Napolitano's distinguished career well prepares
her for this unique position. Elected as governor of Arizona in
2002 and re-elected in 2006, she has important executive
experience. She is Arizona's third female governor, the first
woman to be re-elected to the post, and the first in the
country to succeed another elected female governor. She became
the first Arizonan to chair the National Governors Association
(NGA) after having served as Chair of the Western Governors
Association.
Prior to her service as governor, she was appointed by
President William Clinton to serve as the U.S. Attorney for the
District of Arizona. In that capacity, she supervised the
prosecution of more than 6,000 immigration cases, of course
among many others. She subsequently served as Attorney General
of the State of Arizona from 1998 until her election as
governor in 2002.
And as Senator McCain emphasized, Governor Napolitano will
bring an important perspective to the Department as she
understands what communities along the border must deal with
every day as a result of the continuing flow of illegal
immigrants across our borders. It is a local perspective that
too often has not been well represented in Federal agencies in
Washington. In fact, in 2005, she spoke to her fellow Arizonans
and said this: ``While we here in Arizona will do our jobs, we
need to insist that the people in Washington do theirs. The
Federal Government has a long and nearly unbroken record of
misunderstanding our region and our State. When it comes to
homeland security, we read a lot of bold talk in the
newspapers. But when it comes to resources, Federal policy is
nothing less than timid.''
Well, Governor Napolitano will come to Washington having
worked with Federal officials to bolster border and immigration
enforcement resources, and her new position will present a
great opportunity to continue to respond to the clear call from
the American people to secure the border and enforce our laws.
I congratulate Governor Napolitano on her nomination and
look forward to working with her as she assumes the important
duties as Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.
Chairman Lieberman. Thank you very much, Senator Kyl.
Governor Napolitano, your State and its Senators are
clearly strongly behind you.
We appreciate that both of you are here, and obviously
understand that you have to go on to other work now. Have a
good day. Thank you.
Now, Senator Collins and I both agreed in response to the
statement that Arizona was a very progressive State since it
has already had three women governors, and with that, I will
call on my Ranking Member, Senator Collins of Maine.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS
Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I join our Chairman in welcoming Governor Napolitano to our
Committee. Two great national traumas--the terrorist attacks of
September 11, 2001, and Hurricane Katrina--tragically
demonstrated the loss and suffering that occur when our
Nation's guard is down and we are unprepared.
As the Department of Homeland Security nears its sixth
anniversary, those of us who advocated for its creation can
salute its accomplishments while still recognizing that it
remains very much a work in progress. The men and women at DHS
have helped to deter and protect our Nation from terrorist
attacks. Our Nation's ability to prepare for and respond to
disasters has also improved dramatically with the reforms that
this Committee made to FEMA. Nevertheless, constantly evolving
terrorist threats and the forces of nature require further
improvements at the Department. And its vital mission demands a
strong, skilled leader at its helm.
I recently met with the governor to discuss a wide range of
issues, including security at our borders and seaports,
cooperation with State and local law enforcement, and the
myriad tests that DHS will confront in the coming years. I was
impressed with the governor's background and knowledge of
homeland security issues.
Her experience as a border State governor, in particular,
is most welcome to those of us who represent border States with
extensive cross-border travel and trade. Residents of our
border communities work, shop, worship, and visit family on
both sides of the border, complicating the challenge of border
security. Governor Napolitano understands that we have to let
our friends in, while keeping our enemies out, enforcing border
regulations in a practical manner as we seek to protect the
American people.
Among the significant emerging challenges that the new
Secretary will face is the need to enhance security at our
Nation's biological laboratories. The Commission on Weapons of
Mass Destruction has predicted a terrorist attack using a
biological weapon within the next 5 years. The Commission
pointed to lax security at biological labs as one of the bases
for that chilling assessment.
Another threat that the Department must address is the
security of our Nation's cyber infrastructure. Our Federal
systems require an empowered coordinator that understands the
cyber threat and who can establish and enforce best practices
across the Executive Branch. We must also redouble our efforts
to work with the private sector on cyber security.
Another area where the next Secretary must forge a
partnership with the private sector is the security of our
Nation's critical infrastructure. With more than 85 percent of
those assets in private hands, this is a daunting task.
Seaports and chemical facilities are two categories of
infrastructure that we have made more secure through
legislation that this Committee authored. During the 111th
Congress, I look forward to working with the next Secretary to
authorize these programs while continuing to strengthen the
framework embodied in the National Infrastructure Protection
Plan.
In the last 6 years, the Department has helped improve our
all-hazards preparedness and response capabilities. Homeland
security grant funding for our State and local first responders
has certainly played a critical role in that effort. But,
consistently, funding levels have been under attack by the
Executive Branch, and DHS has not yet fully complied with the
requirement to establish an all-hazards risk formula. Since
every State is at risk for terrorist attacks--especially if
terrorists see gaps in our defenses--it is critical that we
maintain strong funding for these programs and continue to
support a baseline of capabilities for each and every State.
It is the Federal Emergency Management Agency that forms
the core of the Department's ability to perform its
preparedness, response, and recovery missions. After Hurricane
Katrina, as the Chairman has indicated, this Committee launched
an intensive bipartisan investigation and wrote the law that
has resulted in vital reforms of FEMA. If you look at FEMA's
handling of disasters since then, whether it is wildfires,
tornadoes, or severe storms and floods, you see a new FEMA with
improved capabilities, bolstered by increased coordination with
State and local governments and military resources.
FEMA's documented improvements and the logical combination
of all-hazards prevention, preparedness, response, and recovery
in a single Department underscore the need to keep FEMA within
DHS. Detaching FEMA in the vain hope of recapturing some
mythical FEMA of long past days would weaken its effectiveness,
reduce the ability of DHS to carry out its all-hazards planning
mandate, cause needless duplication of effort, and cause
confusion among State and local first responders. And that is
why I am confident that the governor, in reviewing this issue
in more depth, will listen not only to the Chairman and to me,
but to our Nation's firefighters and other first responders who
have taken a very clear position on this important issue.
As a relatively new department, DHS still suffers from some
significant integration and management challenges. That is to
be expected. With a Department that has over 200,000 employees
and combined more than 22 agencies, there are going to be
management challenges. But we have seen great progress in the
last nearly 6 years. From the program management and resource
allocations to the basic need for a consolidated headquarters,
the next Secretary, however, will need to focus intently to
remove the remaining obstacles to effective integration and
improved performance.
The challenges are many, but the new Secretary can look
forward to a bipartisan sense of commitment and resolve from
this Committee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS
I join our Chairman in welcoming Governor Napolitano to our
Committee. Two great national traumas--the terrorist attacks of
September 11, 2001, and Hurricane Katrina--tragically demonstrated the
loss and suffering that occur when our Nation's guard is down and we
are unprepared.
As the Department of Homeland Security nears its sixth anniversary,
those of us who advocated its creation can salute its accomplishments
while still recognizing that it remains very much a work in progress.
The men and women at DHS have helped deter and protect our nation from
terrorist attacks. Our Nation's ability to prepare for and respond to
all disasters has also improved dramatically with the reforms this
Committee made to FEMA.
Nonetheless, constantly evolving terrorist threats and the forces
of nature require further improvements at the Department. And its vital
mission demands a strong, skilled leader at the helm.
I recently met with Governor Napolitano to discuss a wide range of
issues, including security at our borders and seaports, cooperation
with State and local law enforcement, and the myriad tests that DHS
will confront in the coming years. I am impressed with the Governor's
background and knowledge of homeland security issues.
Her experience as a border State governor is particularly welcome
to those of us who represent border States with extensive cross-border
trade and travel. Residents of border communities work, shop, worship,
and visit family on both sides of the border, complicating the
challenge of border security. Governor Napolitano understands that we
have to let our friends in, while keeping our enemies out, enforcing
border regulations in a practical manner as we seek to protect the
American people.
Among the significant emerging challenges that the new Secretary
will face is the need to enhance security at the Nation's biological
laboratories. The Commission on Weapons of Mass Destruction has
predicted a terrorist attack with a biological weapon within the next 5
years. The Commission pointed to lax security at biological labs as one
of the bases for that chilling assessment.
Another threat that the Department must address is the security of
our Nation's cyber infrastructure. Our Federal systems require an
empowered coordinator that understands the cyber threat and can
establish and enforce best practices across the Executive Branch. We
must also redouble our efforts to work with the private sector on cyber
security.
The next Secretary must also continue to focus on the security of
our Nation's critical infrastructure. With more than 85 percent of
those assets in private hands, this is a daunting task. Seaports and
chemical facilities are two categories of infrastructure that we have
made more secure through legislation that I co-authored. During the
111th Congress, I look forward to working with the next Secretary to
reauthorize these programs while continuing to strengthen the framework
embodied in the National Infrastructure Protection Plan.
In the last 6 years, DHS has helped improve our all-hazards
preparedness and response capabilities. Homeland security grant funding
for our State and local first responders has certainly played a key
role in that effort. Funding levels, however, have been under attack
from the Executive Branch, and DHS has not yet fully complied with the
requirement to establish an all-hazards risk formula. Since every State
is at risk for terrorist attacks--especially if terrorists see gaps in
our defenses--it is critical that we maintain strong funding for these
programs and continue to support a baseline of capabilities in every
State.
It is the Federal Emergency Management Agency that forms the core
of the Department's ability to perform its preparedness, response, and
recovery missions. After Hurricane Katrina, this Committee wrote into
law vital reforms of FEMA. Subsequent disasters like wildfires,
tornadoes, and severe storms and floods have demonstrated FEMA's new
and improved capabilities, bolstered by increased coordination with
State and local governments and military resources.
FEMA's documented improvements and the logical combination of all-
hazards prevention, preparedness, response, and recovery in a single
department underscore the need to keep FEMA within DHS. Detaching FEMA
in the vain hope of recapturing mythical halcyon days would weaken its
effectiveness, reduce the ability of DHS to carry out its all-hazards
planning mandate, cause needless duplication of effort, and foment
confusion among State and local first responders during a disaster. As
she explores this issue in more depth, it is my expectation that
Governor Napolitano will eventually share this view, particularly given
the strong views of our Nation's firefighters and other first
responders.
As a relatively new department, DHS still suffers from significant
integration and management challenges. The effective operation of the
Department's 22 legacy agencies requires a strong departmental culture,
close collaboration between the Department's components, and effective
cooperation with other Federal, State, local, tribal, and private-
sector partners. From the Department's program management and resource
allocations, to the basic need for a consolidated headquarters, the
next Secretary must focus intently on removing obstacles to effective
integration and improved performance.
The challenges are many, but the new Secretary can look forward to
a bipartisan sense of commitment and resolve from this Committee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Lieberman. Thank you very much, Senator Collins,
for that excellent opening statement.
I mentioned in my opening statement that there were many
groups that had welcomed President-elect Obama's nomination of
Governor Napolitano. There may be many in the room. I note in
the first row and I want to welcome Harold Schaitberger, head
of the International Association of Fire Fighters, and I also
saw here in a different sense, but very important to the whole
history of the Department, Mary Fetchet, who is a founding
Director of the Voices of September 11th, which has continued
to be involved in the ongoing work of protecting the security
of the American people so that no other families would
experience the loss that the Fetchets did, certainly, the loss
of a son on September 11, 2001.
Governor Napolitano has filed responses to a biographical
and financial questionnaire, answered pre-hearing questions
submitted by the Committee, and had her financial statements
reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. Without objection,
this information will be made part of the hearing record, with
the exception of the financial data, which, as is our custom,
will be on file and available for public inspection in the
Committee's offices.
Chairman Lieberman. Governor, our Committee rules require
that all witnesses at nomination hearings give their testimony
under oath, so I would ask you now to please stand and raise
your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you are about
to give to this Committee will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
Governor Napolitano. I do.
Chairman Lieberman. Thank you, and please be seated.
Governor, it will be our honor and pleasure to hear your
opening statement at this time.
TESTIMONY OF HON. JANET A. NAPOLITANO,\1\ TO BE SECRETARY, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
Governor Napolitano. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and
good morning. Good morning, Ranking Member Collins and Members
of the Committee. It is a privilege and honor to be seated
before you today in nomination to serve as the Secretary of the
Department of Homeland Security. And it is humbling because, as
you know better than anyone, the urgent mission of this
important agency is critical to the lives and security of every
citizen of the United States.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Governor Napolitano appears in the
Appendix on page 45.
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Mr. Chairman and Senator Collins, I want to particular note
and commend your foresight and leadership with respect to this
agency. After the tragedy of September 11, 2001, you understood
the need for a more organized, systematic approach to domestic
terrorism, to homeland security, and you held the vision to
forge a new Department.
I also would like to commend the first two Secretaries of
the Department of Homeland Security--Secretary Ridge and
Secretary Chertoff--for their work in building this Department,
and particularly Secretary Chertoff for his work on the
transition, which has been extensive and very thoughtful, not
just by him but by a number of members of the Department. The
Department has come a long way. But there is a ways to go, as
you have noted, and I look forward to helping the Department
become even better as time goes on.
To secure the homeland means to find and kill the roots of
terrorism, to stop those who intend to hurt us, to wisely
enforce the rule of law at our borders, to protect our Nation's
infrastructure, particularly things like our cyber
infrastructure, as you mentioned, and to be prepared for and to
respond to homeland disasters with speed, skill, compassion,
effectiveness, and common sense.
This is a mission of paramount importance to the Obama
Administration, to this Committee, and to me. And as we seek to
meet that responsibility, I seek to bring to this Committee
several things. One is a close working relationship with this
Committee and with the Congress. I recognize this Committee's
unusual expertise with respect to the subject matter here, and
I will cooperate fully with its oversight and investigative
functions as we work together to keep building the Department.
I also look forward to the Committee's assistance on making
changes as changes need to be made. After all, we do share that
common goal, a strong and vigorous Department of Homeland
Security.
I will also bring to this role, should I be confirmed, a
great deal of experience. As Senator McCain and Senator Kyl
noted, as a border governor on the Southwestern border, I have
dealt with the immigration issue from every aspect since I
entered public life in 1993. I know that border very well and
the challenges presented there. I look forward to getting to
know the Northern border as well as I know the Southwest
border, because it is different. And we have already spoken,
some of us, about the need to get as familiar with the North as
I am with the South.
As a governor, I bring other types of experience to this
role. I was the governor during the Lewis prison hostage crisis
in Arizona, a 15-day stand-off when several of our prison
officers were kept hostage by armed inmates. And we were able
to resolve that after 15 days without loss of life.
The Kinder-Morgan pipeline that brings basically all the
gasoline into the Phoenix area ruptured, and it was there that
I recognized not only the criticality of infrastructure but how
fragile it is and how necessary it is to have a working
relationship with the private sector, which controls much of
that physical infrastructure. It only takes one hot Sunday
afternoon in August in Phoenix where people cannot get gasoline
for a governor to recognize how critical that infrastructure
is.
I have dealt with drought, and the response to drought, and
also with the major natural catastrophe that affects Arizona,
which are forest fires that are ever increasing and ever
larger.
As governor, we created a 211 system in our State to
provide alternative sources for information to the 911 system
that is updated on a current basis and real-time basis during
any type of emergency. We mobilized early and effectively to
accept evacuees from Hurricane Katrina. And we were among the
first States to create a State-wide anti-terrorism fusion
center that is now being used as a model for other States.
On the issue of cyber security, when I was the Attorney
General, I created the first cyber crime unit within the
Attorney General's office. We brought some of the first
prosecutions in the country in that area. And as governor, by
executive order I created a State-wide information security and
privacy office to deal with all of the issues affecting the
collection of data in databases, not just from a security side
but from a privacy side as well.
Because I am a governor, a chief executive, I have a lot of
experience with budgets and management. And though the
Department of Homeland Security is larger than the
Administration of the State of Arizona, it shares with it some
of those same features.
There are many issues with the Department of Homeland
Security, and I look forward to working with the Committee on
them. We must work to make sure the Department continues to
merge as a whole and has a unified vision for homeland
security. We must work to streamline communications. We must
work to recruit, train, and retain the best and the brightest
amongst our employees. We must continue to work on Federal
relationships with other agencies, and I will share with this
Committee that during the course of the transition, President-
elect Obama has held a number of exercises with the national
security team. And then, indeed, this week on Tuesday, there
was one with President-elect Obama's security team and
President Bush's current security team. And all of those
exercises have illustrated the central role now that the
Department of Homeland Security plays. And as we strengthen
these Federal links, we must recognize the important
partnerships we have with State and local enforcement and first
responders. The Federal Government cannot do the homeland
security function alone. Amongst all the departments, it is as
essential as anything to make sure that we have linked in,
planned with, and exercised with our State and local partners,
and that is something that I hope to spend a great deal of
effort on.
We hope to move our security team in place at the
Department as quickly as possible. I look forward, again, to
working with this Committee, and I am privileged to appear
before you today to discuss the issues of concern with you.
I want to thank you for hearing me today, and I, again, am
very humbled and privileged to receive this nomination.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks very much, Governor Napolitano.
Let me start questioning with the standard questions that
we ask of all nominees.
First, is there anything you are aware of in your
background that might present a conflict of interest with the
duties of the office to which you have been nominated?
Governor Napolitano. No.
Chairman Lieberman. Second, do you know of anything,
personal or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from
fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the
office to which you have been nominated?
Governor Napolitano. No.
Chairman Lieberman. And, finally, do you agree without
reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and
testify before any duly constituted committee of Congress if
you are confirmed?
Governor Napolitano. Yes.
Chairman Lieberman. Thank you. You are doing very well so
far. [Laughter.]
We are going to start our first round of questions limited
to 7 minutes each. I had not planned this as my first question,
but you said something that leads me to say this: From you and
others that I have talked to, President Bush and his
Administration have really been quite remarkable and proactive
in this transition, and as far as I can remember, it is one of
the best ever made, maybe the best.
I appreciate that you thanked Secretary Chertoff for what
he has done to get you ready to assume these jobs. This is
obviously way beyond anything that is political and certainly
not partisan. We are talking here about homeland security. But
you said something that I had not known about, and if you are
comfortable just saying a little more, you have actually gone
through some exercises. I presume you mean exercises in
responding to an imagined national security crisis alongside
the Bush Administration team. Can you say a little more about
that?
Governor Napolitano. Yes, Mr. Chairman. On Tuesday, in the
Old Executive Office Building, there was an exercise with the
current President Bush team and the incoming nominees to walk
through in sort of a tabletop fashion a scenario that is one
that could happen. There is no firm intelligence that it would,
but it is a scenario of multiple improvised explosive devices
(IEDs) going off in different places over a period of time, and
how that information would be received, processed, what
different departments would begin to do. And that followed on
the heels of several sessions that President-elect Obama has
had with the incoming nominees on the security side to really
not forget that national security team. That has been ongoing
over the last several months as well.
Chairman Lieberman. Well, that is very reassuring on both
counts and obviously should encourage the American people that
next Tuesday, when the new Administration takes over, you are
going to be ready. Also, I will say from the point of view of
this Committee that I am grateful and proud that you were right
there in the middle of it because the Secretary of Homeland
Security needs to be in the middle of it. It happens to be the
newest Department of our government, but I will tell you that,
in my opinion--and I hope everybody else's--it ranks in
importance with the very first departments created by our
government in its history. So I thank you for your answer to
that question.
There have been many positive things said about you in
response to your nomination. Perhaps the only critique that I
have heard--and I want to give you a chance to respond to it--
is that, yes, you have had extraordinarily law enforcement
experience, you have had the management experience, and all the
substantive experience that comes with being a governor, indeed
a border State governor, managing response to disasters and
crises, as you mentioned. But the criticism has been that you
have had no specific involvement in counterterrorism, as it
were. And I wanted to give you a chance at the outset to
respond to that.
Governor Napolitano. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think
my direct experience with counterterrorism began when I was
U.S. Attorney for Arizona in 1995, when our office handled a
large segment of the investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing
case. As you may recall, the planning for that crime occurred
within Arizona, and we were responsible for setting up the
command center and all of the investigative measures that were
taken in connection with that matter.
Since then, on the prosecution side, I have handled cases
that had aspects of that. I have prosecuted a militia group,
for example, that was filming Federal buildings in the Phoenix
area with the intent to blow them up simultaneously, and cases
of that sort.
Now, have I done that on a daily basis? Fortunately not,
and that is just the reality of it. But the whole issue of
terrorism and counterterrorism, the investigative mechanisms
that must be employed, the appreciation of good-quality and
credible intelligence, the understanding that not all
intelligence received initially is accurate and that you really
have to work to make sure you get to the bottom of things, that
is something I have direct experience with.
Chairman Lieberman. I appreciate that, and obviously, you
bring, as you said in your opening statement--and as Senator
McCain and Senator Kyl said--the unique management experience
of a governor, regardless of the particular threat that you are
responding to.
Let me ask you one of those questions we always ask, and it
is interesting but never definitive as you start up. Based on
what you know now and the briefings you have had, give us a
sense of what your two priorities will be as you go in as
Secretary of Homeland Security.
Governor Napolitano. I think initially I go in with the
idea of continuing to create a unified vision for this
Department and to create a culture, as it were, that this is a
Department of Homeland Security that has many aspects to it,
not 22 separate agencies. And that means having consistent
guidance Department-wide on everything from the nuts and bolts
of acquisition, program management, and procurement to how we
handle getting information to me and from me in a management
perspective.
The second thing, Mr. Chairman, is this Department has a
lot of parts to it, many of which require presidential
appointment and confirmation, and we want to, as I said in my
statement, recruit the best and the brightest to move into
those leadership roles. And that will be an immediate priority.
The third thing is in a way to complete the work of
transition. I have had hours of initial briefings. Indeed, the
Secretary was kind enough to send teams to Arizona so I could
do briefings there while I continued to serve as governor. But
should I assume the role as Secretary, should I be confirmed,
there will be a whole other level I will want to get at, and we
will go methodically through that.
Some of the areas of the Department I have a lot of day-to-
day experience with, some not so much. We will want to get
those things equivalent.
Chairman Lieberman. Thank you. That is a good beginning. My
time is up. Senator Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you.
Governor, you mentioned in your opening remarks that for
our Nation to be fully protected, there has to be a robust
relationship with State and local governments. And, indeed, we
talked about that in our private meeting as well.
Yesterday, the Associated Press reported that key
provisions of Arizona's Homeland Security Plan, which you first
announced back in 2003, have not yet been implemented. And some
of them are important provisions, such as establishing a State-
wide, interoperable radio communications program for first
responders.
What did you find to be the obstacles that prevented you on
the State level from fully implementing a plan that you
announced 6 years ago?
Governor Napolitano. I am glad you asked that question,
Senator. I think it will not surprise you when I say I don't
think the newspaper story was entirely accurate. Indeed, it
even misspelled the name of the Homeland Security Director in
Arizona.
Be that as it may, we had 10 action items in our Homeland
Security Plan. Eight were fully effectuated. Two were not. One
was to computerize all criminal records within the State of
Arizona. We are well on our way to doing that. The records that
have not yet been totally computerized come from the more rural
parts of the State. The major urban areas, the urban areas that
cover 90 percent or so of the State's population, now have been
unified and computerized. So there is easy access for officers
on the street. And the rest, should I have stayed as governor,
would have been completed during the remainder of my term.
On the interoperability issue, the key obstacle was
funding, and that is something that, as the Secretary, I would
hope to take up on an operational way, because I know of no
State really that has been able to get to full
interoperability.
That being said, and given the true fiscal issues involved
there, what we did in Arizona was we purchased a series of what
I would call patch trucks--trucks that can be moved into
different areas at different times to provide a connect between
different types of radio systems. So, for example, if you have
a forest fire in one area and you have a number of different
responders working there, you send up the trucks to help make
sure you have interoperability. If you have flooding in the
Nogales wash at the border, you send the trucks down to make
sure you have got some functional interoperability. The trucks
were asked for in response to Hurricane Rita, we sent them over
there. So we patched together an interoperability system that
has worked for us while we deal with the greater
infrastructure--and I think it is really a national issue of
the entire interoperability concern.
Senator Collins. Well, this is an area that the Chairman
and I have worked a great deal on. We were appalled when
Hurricane Katrina struck to find the same inability of first
responders to communicate with one another that marked the
attacks on our country on September 11, 2001. And that lack of
interoperability truly cost lives. It is something that the
Chairman and I have created a special funding program to assist
States in this area.
Do you anticipate helping us to increase the funding for
that program given your experience with the cost obstacle in
Arizona?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, not just that. I really want
to bring some people who are technically savvy to look at this
interoperability issue, to make sure that we are getting the
kinds of systems we really need with the best and most current
technology available.
One of the things I am concerned about, having dealt with
this for the last 5 years, is I am not sure we have the right
people talking with the right people about how this actually
gets done. So it is a money issue, but I also want to make sure
that from a technology standpoint we are really getting at it.
Senator Collins. In your response to Senator Lieberman's
question about priorities, you talked mainly about management
issues. I would like to hear from you more about your
priorities in the area of terrorism and counterterrorism.
This Committee has attempted over the years to identify
emerging threats, vulnerabilities such as our seaports, our
chemical plants, and to enact legislation in this area. We have
undertaken a major investigation into homegrown terrorism,
which is not solved by better border security, for example. We
are looking at the vulnerabilities of biological labs and of
cyber security.
When you look at emerging threats, what areas worry you the
most? What areas are you going to particularly focus on?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, I think one of the things we
can do at the Department is to focus on areas that other
departments don't necessarily focus on, because in the
intelligence world, what I have perceived is there is a lot of
duplication of people looking at the same things.
But, in my view, two areas that this Department ought to
focus on are transportation security from a prevention and
protection standpoint, not just aviation but surface
transportation as well. To pick up Senator Lieberman's comment,
that is a work in progress. We haven't done as much there as we
have done on the aviation; but also work with the private
sector on the private infrastructure, and that is chemical.
On the issue of biological materials, now you get into, in
part, the academic sector because many of those facilities are
at universities, which do not necessarily view themselves as a
security risk the same way, say, a nuclear plant might.
So those are the types of things where we want to guide the
Department. Let's go where the gaps are that our Department is
uniquely qualified to fill.
Senator Collins. Thank you.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks very much, Senator Collins.
We will go in the normal Committee custom, which is in
order of arrival here. Senator Voinovich, welcome. You are
next.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR VOINOVICH
Senator Voinovich. Thank you.
First of all, I really appreciated the opportunity that I
had to spend some time in my office with you, and there is no
question that you have the management qualifications to be
Secretary of the Department. You have mentioned some
experiences that you have had as governor that are relevant to
the operation of the office. I am impressed with the grasp that
you have of the Department, even though you have not been
there. One of the things that I am interested in that I think
would be very helpful to this Committee is that once you have
had a chance to get in the saddle, come back with some of the
priorities that you think are the most important and share with
us ways that we can be of help. Maybe it is legislation, or
maybe it is getting involved with the Administration to get
some things done, like questioning whether you have the
flexibility to hire, retain, and reward people that you are
going to need in order to get the job done, and having the
budget that you need to get the job done.
My observation is that so many secretaries have been asked
to do work but are not given the resources to do it. And I have
always said that if you don't give someone the resources that
they need to get the job done, you basically tell them that you
don't think very much of the job you have asked them to do.
One of the things that has been of real concern to me--and
I know that some other Members of this Committee have been
concerned about it--is that the 9/11 Commission Report made a
recommendation to provide better and more streamlined oversight
of the Department of Homeland Security. But I remember when the
sense of the Senate that was accepted during this Committee's
markup of the 9/11 Commission bill, calling on the Senate to
reorganize itself, was removed from the bill before floor
consideration.
That is one of the big things that we have not done, and I
think for the record you should know and the American people
should know that we have 86 committees and subcommittees in the
House and Senate overseeing DHS--and last year DHS was
subjected to 375 visits to the Hill. That does not include the
meetings that many Senators and Congressmen may have had with
top people in DHS.
Now, I think that is absolutely unacceptable. As a
Committee, we should do what we can to try to respond to this
recommendation of the 9/11 Commission so that the Secretary can
get her job done and the people that are working for her can
get it done, without having to come up here so many times to
respond to Congress. I think that is something that I would
like you to look at, and I would like the President perhaps to
even explain that it is time that we enforce that provision of
the 9/11 Commission Report.
The other thing that you and I talked about was the Visa
Waiver Program. I got very much involved in that in the last
Congress, and I was pleased that the State Department and the
Department of Homeland Security came together with a new system
for expanding the program. That system, I think, is one that we
should all be happy about. It not only improves the sharing of
information from countries that are now part of the Visa Waiver
Program, but it also has responded to a major public diplomacy
problem that we had where many of these nations that have come
into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), and are our
friends, were kept out of that program. I know there is going
to be some heat that you are going to experience because of the
program, and I would like you to tell me whether or not you are
familiar with the recommendations that the Government
Accountability Office (GAO) has made to improve the program,
which I think are objective. And just where do you stand in
regard to this issue?
Governor Napolitano. Well, thank you, Senator, and to your
first comments, thank you for those comments.
With respect to Visa Waiver, I have looked generally at the
GAO. I have not drilled down on the recommendations themselves.
There is a balance, obviously, to be struck between the
security issues implicated in Visa Waiver and the public
diplomacy elements associated with Visa Waiver.
So I look forward to working with you and the Committee on
those recommendations and with the State Department, which has
a very important role to play. But I am very cognizant of the
very important balance that needs to be struck.
Senator Voinovich. Well, I know I mentioned to a member of
the State Department that if we were to overnight try and yank
Visa Waiver privileges from the 35 countries that now have
them, it could be a disaster in terms of public diplomacy, and
I think we ought to be able to handle that in a more diplomatic
way and get them to do some things we want them to do.
The other issue I want to raise is the relationship that we
have with Canada, and you are familiar with those problems
because you have been a governor and Chairman of the NGA. One
of the things that we have been promoting is to allow the
passport card to be used--which today can be used for land and
sea travel--for air travel. We would like you to look into
that. You are probably going to be seeing some legislation to
make that happen. I really think it is important that we calm
the fears of our friends from Canada, that some of the security
measures we are implementing may interfere with this wonderful
relationship that we have with them.
There are many other issues we talked about, but today I
will mention the interoperability issue. I have visited four
Ohio communities and spent several hours in each one of them
discussing interoperability. Most of them are not where they
are supposed to be. We have a really great program in Columbus.
Ohio is lucky because when I was governor we instituted the
Multi-Agency Radio Communications System (MARCS), which is one
of the best in the country in terms of State-wide
communication. But the real problem that most communities are
having is they don't have the wherewithal to get the equipment
that they need. I think you kind of alluded to the issue of
technology and kinds of technology and looking at the issue of
whether everybody is using the same thing and is there a
problem with that.
And then the other issue, of course, is interoperability
between States. For example, Ohio has been working with the
State of Michigan to try and make sure there is some
interoperability there.
So a lot of these issues are things that you have to dot
the i's and cross the t's on, but I think you know from your
experience as governor, that is where you get the job done,
when you do that.
Governor Napolitano. Thank you, Senator. And it is a
resource issue. It is a regional issue. It is a State issue.
But we have to get this done, and I think it is something that,
given my own experience in Arizona and working with other
governors, the Department really should take a leadership role
on now.
Senator Voinovich. And I am glad you understand that
Emergency Management Performance Grants (EMPGs) are very
important to making that happen. Thank you.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks, Senator Voinovich.
I just want to say a word about the very strong point that
Senator Voinovich made, about the 9/11 Commission
recommendation that we reduce the number of committees to which
the Secretary of Homeland Security reports. We actually tried,
but when we brought that up on the floor, we got overwhelmed.
You would be surprised to hear that there is a certain
protection of turf that occurs here. Some consider subcommittee
and committee chairmanships to be the beginning of policies of
manifest destiny. So it is hard to resist.
It is really not a good situation. I don't know that we can
offer you the prospect of legislative help on this. But I would
urge you at least to try to cut back on it by seeing if you can
establish a rule of your own that you are only going to testify
at the full Committee level. I think if you start getting
picked away by subcommittees, except in circumstances when
there is something really critical going on, it is going to be
very hard for you to do the rest of what we want you to do.
Thanks, Senator Voinovich, for bringing that up.
Senator McCaskill.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCASKILL
Senator McCaskill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me start by making a comment. As I watched this hearing
unfold this morning and Chairman Lieberman gavel us in and
Senators McCain and Kyl introduce you, the thought kept running
through my mind: Our democracy is a class act. And I want to
say that I don't think there is anybody that could be more
thrilled to have you sitting there than I am. And I want to
welcome you and congratulate you. And I know you know this
because we have talked about it. I think you are taking on one
of the biggest and maybe one of the most difficult jobs in our
country in terms of government. So enjoy today. [Laughter.]
Because it is all going to be warm and fuzzy today, and
that is probably going to be it.
Let me talk a little bit about immigration enforcement. As
you and I have discussed, I am a firm believer that enforcement
on the employer side is the only way we are going to get true
immigration reform in this country.
Americans are not willing to support comprehensive
immigration reform right now because they believe that we are
looking the other way on enforcement. And, by the way, I don't
think it is enforcement of the immigrants. You and I have
talked about that these people are not coming to this country
for a vacation. They are coming for a job. And I believe the
Federal Government has hid behind the notion these cases are
too difficult to make against employers.
I believe the previous Administration purposefully looked
the other way as it related to employers. E-verify or no E-
verify, the idea that the head of Immigration and Customs
Enforcement (ICE) in this country in early September 2007 had
no idea how many employers had received criminal sanctions was
symptomatic of this attitude. And it took interns in my office,
taking hours to go through records, to figure out how many
employers had enforcement actions against them.
We now know because the head of ICE then undertook the
effort of determining how many employers had been sanctioned.
We now know that both in fiscal year 2007 and fiscal year 2008,
it was around 10 percent of the total. That is not enough
because, frankly, everyone in this room knows--and there were
only 22 entities that were fined in the whole country. You
could find 22 in Missouri if you halfway decided to concentrate
on it.
So I would like to hear your plans for prioritizing the
enforcement of our immigration laws against those who allow 40
or 50 people to use the same Social Security number in the
workplace.
Governor Napolitano. Well, thank you, Senator, and I will
try to remember the warm and fuzzy feeling later on, so thank
you for mentioning that.
With respect to employers, my experience is that you have
to deal with illegal immigration from the demand side as well
as the supply side. You have to enforce the rule of law at the
border. That requires manpower and technology and a good system
at the border itself.
But you also have to deal with what is drawing people
illegally across the border, and particularly with respect to
the Southern border, to make that very tortuous and dangerous
journey. And it is the prospect of a job. And we do have
employers who use the lack of enforcement as a way to exploit
the illegal labor market, to depress wages, to exploit workers
on some cases, and that requires enforcement.
Indeed, one criticism of the 1986 revision of our Nation's
immigration laws was that it lost its credibility because there
was no sustained employer enforcement action undertaken after
that. So we need to do that.
I signed the Nation's strongest employer sanctions bill
when I was governor, in part because of my belief that you have
to get at the employer side as well as the employee side. But
you have to do it in the right way. You have got to do it in a
smart way. And you have to target appropriately, and we have to
have appropriate agreements with the Department of Justice and
the U.S. Attorneys' Offices that they are going to bring actual
cases.
So one of the first things I will do, should I be confirmed
as Secretary, is begin a collaboration with the Department of
Justice and hopefully with the U.S. Attorneys' Offices
throughout the country so that we can start moving actual
prosecutive cases through the system.
Senator McCaskill. Also, as we talked about, I think there
is an opportunity. We have some unfortunate enforcement
efforts, I think, that are going on at the State and local
level. But I think with some leadership from your office, that
talent and those resources could be channeled more effectively
as we do a comprehensive enforcement strategy by utilizing
local prosecutors. And that is why I think your experience, as
a governor you know what it feels like when Washington isn't
doing it right. And I know that you won't forget what it feels
like when Washington is not doing it right. So I think that is
a great plus.
The other thing I want to bring up with you is, we used to
say when I was a prosecutor that we were doing all the serious
felonies, and the rapes and the murders, but the face of the
criminal justice system is municipal court because that is
where most people were coming in to pay traffic tickets and
that is how people got their impression of how we were running
the system of enforcing the law in my community. And I think
the same thing is true on airport screenings as it relates to
homeland security.
I have to tell you, a whole lot of it has appeared ad hoc
to the general public. The best example--and I have talked
about it in this hearing before--is mascara. I mean, women
across America were going, ``Huh?'' ``What is it about my
mascara that is so threatening?'' And I never got a good answer
to that question. By the way, they have quit worrying about
mascara, quietly. Mascara is now OK for the women of America.
You can take your mascara and not worry about it being taken
from you. But they changed that without even really telling
anybody.
Now, I understand that there are things they change, and
pat-downs have changed. I know because I have a fake knee, and
I have to get patted down every time I go through the metal
detector. So I am on the front lines of knowing how we are
doing in terms of these airport screenings. Well, they have
changed what they are doing on pat-downs.
Now, I don't recall ever on this Committee us even being
given any information about them changing pat-downs. And so if
you are not a U.S. Senator and these changes are going on, you
say, Well, what is going on? Why are they doing this? And it
gives you a sense of unease that the people who are in charge
have no idea what they are doing. And I would like you to speak
to that.
Governor Napolitano. Well, Senator, I think one of the
things we need to do at the Department of Homeland Security is
communicate because I believe the American people want to help
participate in their own security and are willing to undertake
and do things that are inconvenient or somewhat of a hardship
if they believe there is a real reason for it.
But you can't take advantage of that good will, and one of
the things that we will be working on at the Department of
Homeland Security is explaining when there is a change in
procedure or why we are doing certain things the way we are. We
also need to make sure that if we are going to enact something
that is going to inconvenience 53 percent of the traveling
public, there is a good databased reason for that change and
the change is explained and carried out uniformly. Because
another critique I have received in the course of the
transition is inconsistency at different places for the same
action.
First of all, there are a lot of wonderful men and women
working at the Transportation Security Administration (TSA),
and they are doing a wonderful job. But we can work to make it
even better and then explain it better to the American
traveling public.
Senator McCaskill. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, let me just say I do not want anyone to
misinterpret. I am not anxious for the pat-downs to come back.
I do not miss the extra love pats. So do not misinterpret my
comment as saying I want there to be some good reason to
reinstate the pats. So, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Lieberman. Thank you, Senator McCaskill. You left
me speechless there for a moment. [Laughter.]
Now we go to Senator Akaka. I was thinking about the
membership of the Committee, that this Committee really is very
geographically diverse--in addition to the extraordinary
capabilities on it--really from sea to sea and coast to coast.
And you mentioned earlier about the Northern border. Senator
Tester has been a particular advocate for the security concerns
of the Northern border. Obviously, Senator Akaka, who I am
going to call on next, takes us all the way to Hawaii. Senator
Akaka.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for
holding this hearing. For me it has been exciting to see the
high-quality people President Obama is nominating for key
posts.
Governor Napolitano, I want to thank you for taking the
time to be with us this morning, and I just want to repeat
again that I am very impressed with you, your background, your
experience, and also your performance prior to moving into the
Cabinet position. And, therefore, you have really heightened my
confidence in what is ahead for this Administration and this
country with your service as Secretary of this Department.
The Department of Homeland Security represents perhaps the
most serious management challenge in the Federal Government
today. At the beginning of a new Administration, the focus
often is on new policy objectives. I urge you to focus closely
on improving the Department's management functions as well.
At Secretary Chertoff's nomination hearing 4 years ago, I
stated--and I believe it is worth highlighting again--that the
price of security should never erode our constitutional
freedoms. There is an urgent need to review and revise policies
at DHS that infringe on privacy and civil liberties. And I look
forward to working with you on those issues.
Before I move on to my questions, Mr. Chairman, I want to
ask that my full statement be made part of the record.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks, Senator Akaka. Without
objection, so ordered.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Senator Akaka follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA
Governor Napolitano, welcome and please accept my congratulations
on your nomination to be Secretary for the Department of Homeland
Security (DHS).
The new Secretary of Homeland Security will face enormous
challenges. As I have stated before, I believe DHS represents the most
serious management challenge in the Federal Government today. The
Department of Homeland Security has been on the Government
Accountability Office's ``High-Risk List'' since 2003. Reforming the
Department to be more efficient and effective will require dedication
and innovative solutions.
I urge you to focus closely on the Department's management
functions, if you are confirmed. A key strategy for improving
management will be to empower the Under Secretary for Management with
the authority and resources to further develop coordination between
DHS's numerous agencies and directorates.
I am particularly concerned about the Department's acquisition
management. There continues to be poor planning and oversight of major
contracts at DHS, most notably the U.S. Customs and Border Protection's
Secure Border Initiative (SBInet) virtual fence. The Department needs
to act aggressively to recruit more acquisition professionals to
develop and oversee contracts at DHS.
Additionally, DHS must invest in its workforce in order to achieve
better results. The Department continues to struggle with poor morale,
as well as recruiting and retaining employees. DHS Headquarters was
ranked 216 out of 220 agencies on the Partnership for Public Services'
2008 Best Places to Work in the Federal Government survey. To improve
this situation, the Department should make better use of hiring
flexibilities and invest in the workforce through more robust student
loan repayment, professional development, and mentorship programs.
To be an employer of choice, DHS also must ensure that employees
have input in management decisions and workplace protections, including
collective bargaining rights. For example, the lack of basic worker
protections, including collective bargaining rights. For example, the
lack of basic worker protections has contributed to the Transportation
Security Administration having one of the highest levels of attrition,
discrimination complaints, and workers' compensation claims in the
Federal Government. Continually losing trained and talented employees
may jeopardize our security.
Finally, as I stated during Secretary Chertoff's nomination hearing
4 years ago, the price of security should never erode our
constitutional freedoms. There is an urgent need to review and revise
policies at DHS that infringe on privacy and civil liberties. For
example, DHS's policy on searches of laptops and other electronic
equipment at the border raises privacy concerns and should be reviewed.
Likewise, the REAL ID Act poses privacy and other concerns. The
REAL ID Act does not contain adequate protections for personal
information that will be contained on REAL ID cards and in linked State
databases. Furthermore, as you are well aware, REAL ID imposes large
costs on the States. Numerous States, including Arizona, have passed
legislation rejecting REAL ID. Air travel could be greatly disrupted if
the problems with REAL ID are not resolved by the end of 2009, when the
current extensions for REAL ID compliance expire. This would
particularly harm Hawaii, as our economy is heavily dependent on
tourism and most people arrive by air. It is time to repeal REAL ID and
replace it with a solution that has State support and privacy
protections.
Governor Napolitano, I want to thank you for your dedication to
public service--as a U.S. Attorney, as a Attorney General, as Governor
of Arizona, and, I anticipate, as Secretary of Homeland Security. I
look forward to working closely with you to protect our country and
implementing reform.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Akaka. Governor Napolitano, you signed Arizona
legislation rejecting REAL ID because of inadequate Federal
funding. As you may know, I support more secure drivers'
licenses, but I believe that REAL ID is deeply flawed. I have
advocated repealing and replacing REAL ID with a more workable
solution to increase State buy-in and improve privacy
protections.
Do you believe that it is time to review the REAL ID
statute and, if its flaws cannot be fixed through
administrative action, to amend or replace it?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, I did sign a bill, and we
were one of a number of States that said we would not
participate in REAL ID, not out of a philosophical objection to
the goal of having a secure driver's license that could be
relied upon in our country, but because it is a huge fiscal
burden and it costs a lot of money to do it.
I also think that we did not have enough consultation and
collaboration with States, which, after all, is where motor
vehicle divisions are run and have the whole mechanism by which
the REAL ID would be accomplished.
So in response to your question, what I intend to do is to
sit back down with a group of governors--the National Governors
Association has formed a bipartisan task force here--and get
the sense of their recommendations and where we need to go with
respect to REAL ID. And if it is a matter that needs to be
taken up again legislatively, I hope to work with this
Committee on the necessary improvements, because as it stands
right now, we really have a patchwork of States of what they
are doing, and particularly with the condition of the States
fiscally, I don't think we can reasonably anticipate that they
have money available now to put into an enhanced driver's
license program.
So we need to rethink, revisit, reconsult, and then, if
necessary, come back to this Committee.
Senator Akaka. As you know, at this moment half of the
States have passed laws rejecting REAL ID.
DHS has struggled through poor morale, high turnover, and
high vacancies due in part to the Department's efforts to alter
collective bargaining rights and to implement a pay-for-
performance system. These proposals were resisted by the
employees and their representatives, and ultimately were
blocked by the courts and Congress because of fairness
concerns. DHS must improve its ability to recruit, train,
motivate, and retain skilled employees in order to meet its
mission.
Please discuss your key priorities for investing in the
Department's workforce and ensuring a fair and transparent
personnel system.
Governor Napolitano. Well, Senator, I have been very
impressed with the men and women I have met in the Department,
both here in Washington--and those tend to be those in the
higher reaches of the Department--but then out in the field as
I have run into them in different circumstances.
And so we start with that. We start with the premise that
the men and women of this Department want to work to keep
America safe. That is why they are here. That is their mission.
And so we start with the good will.
I think as the Secretary, we want to continue to enforce
that. We want to provide for employees a sense of being part of
this very important mission and some real career paths for them
so that if they begin at a low level position, say in the TSA,
they know that over the course of their career, if they perform
well, they could advance and that it is a real career path for
them.
Those are the kinds of things that make for good morale,
and those are the kinds of things that we will be working on.
Senator Akaka. Governor, only one large U.S.-flagged cruise
ship remains operating in Hawaii. Rapid growth in foreign-
flagged ships has forced domestic ships out of business by
avoiding U.S. tax, labor, and employment laws. The Passenger
Vessels Services Act (PVSA) restricts foreign-flagged ships
from operating in U.S. ports, but it has not been enforced.
Customs and Border Protection issued an interpretive rule on
the PVSA clarifying the scope of the law, but the Office of
Management and Budget returned that rule for further
consideration.
Will you work to craft a new interpretive rule to enforce
the existing statute?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, yes, I will be happy to look
into that rule and its particular application to the Hawaii
situation.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks, Senator Akaka. Senator Tester.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TESTER
Senator Tester. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciated the
opportunity to visit with Governor Napolitano. And I just might
add as a sidebar, Mr. Chairman, I don't think you are the first
guy that Claire McCaskill has left speechless. [Laughter.]
But that aside, I want to say welcome to the governor, and
I appreciated the opportunity to visit with you yesterday. I
think we have a lot of work to do. But as we have these
Committee hearings with nominees, I would just say that I
think, as Senator McCaskill said, you have a real opportunity
to make a difference in the security of this country and the
efficiency of how the Department works and how tax dollars are
spent. And so I think that there is some real opportunity with
those challenges as they come forward.
I appreciate your willingness, as I do with everybody, to
serve this country. Thank you for what you have done, and thank
you for what you are about to do. I think you will be
confirmed, and I hope it is done quickly.
We have tried to move the discussion, as the Chairman has
said, to the Northern border, how we use those resources, and
making sure we use those resources well. As we go up there, we
see Border Patrol with new stations and plenty of personnel. We
see a lot of the ports on the Northern border where there are
too few Customs inspectors. They are cramped and insufficient
for dealing with the work that they have to do up there from my
perspective. And I think it is bad for security, and I think it
is bad for commerce.
DHS does not appear to have an integrated, coherent
strategy for the Northern border security that matches up well
with the public identified threat. In the Implementing the 9/11
Commission Recommendations Act, I included an amendment to do a
study to look at the vulnerabilities on the Northern border and
how DHS was going to plan to address them. Unfortunately, the
document from my perspective was almost useless. There was no
strategic plan for dealing with the border. There was nothing
that indicated that there was any real thought given to the
Northern border at all. And this is more than 7 years after
September 11, 2001.
What actions as Secretary would you take to ensure that we
have sufficient and appropriate use of resources along the
Northern border?
Governor Napolitano. Well, Senator, I think one of the
first things I want to do is go to the Northern border
physically, get a sense of the area, see the facilities that
are there, talk to members of the communities in those border
towns--the mayors and sheriffs. I want to talk to the employees
who work in those Border Patrol stations. I want to see what
work has been done to having a Northern border strategy, and
then really drill down on it to make sure that it is a cohesive
strategy that makes sense for the geography that we are talking
about.
Senator Tester. You mentioned local law enforcement,
visiting with them. What role do you see in your duration in
this office local law enforcement playing in regard to border
security?
Governor Napolitano. Well, I think it is at least twofold,
Senator. One is through programs like Operation Stonegarden
augmenting overtime. They can help augment law enforcement
interdiction, apprehension, and prosecution. But they also can
and should be extra eyes and ears on the ground, and that
doesn't necessarily require a formal financial relationship. My
experience is that law enforcement is law enforcement. And if
they are asked to keep an eye out for X and know that
information is welcome and will be acted on--and also if
information that the Federal Government has is shared with
them--that is the kind of ongoing partnership with law
enforcement that we want to build.
Senator Tester. Good. I look forward to you building those
relationships. I think they are important, and I think you get
the most bang for the buck in those.
As we talked about yesterday, we have a reservation, a
significant Indian community, that butts up against Canada in
the northwest part of the State, and there are some issues
dealing with the sovereignty of that tribe in particular and
our goals. And I do not think the goals are any different, but
the sovereignty issue makes it a little different play.
You have a Shadow Wolves Program in Arizona, I believe.
First of all, does that work pretty well? And, second of all,
do you think that is something that could work in other areas
of the country when you are dealing in Indian country?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, I cannot respond. I haven't
looked at the Shadow Wolves program for a while. But I can say
this: I am very sensitive to the sovereignty and jurisdiction
issues that Indian country presents. Actually, in Arizona we
have an Indian reservation. The Tohono O'odham reservation
actually crosses the border into Mexico, and so we work with
tribal leaders there in terms of what measures would be taken
along that stretch of border, and it requires direct
consultation and a realization that there are tribal
jurisdictions involved in the homeland security picture, and
there are differences there we need to appreciate.
Senator Tester. Good. I want to associate myself with
Senator Akaka's comments on REAL ID. I am not going to get into
it, not because I don't think it is important; I think it is
very important. But time is limited, and I think he hit on a
lot of very good points that I absolutely agree with when you
talk about freedom versus civil liberties.
I do want to talk about small business contracting. This is
a big agency that lays out some pretty large contracts, and in
that process, from my perspective, they only get big
contractors to bid on those big contracts.
There are a lot of good ideas out there in small businesses
that could really help border security from what I have seen,
and I am sure you will get an opportunity to see some of that
down the line. But would you make a commitment to really take a
look at the small businesses and give them an opportunity to be
a part of our security future as far as contracting goes?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, yes, I will take a look at
that whole issue of contracting, small versus large; also, the
phenomenon of big contractors subcontracting and how that is
working within the Department.
Senator Tester. I would certainly appreciate that.
Once again, governor, I look forward to working with you on
this Committee. I look forward to you not having to come up and
testify in front of all these committees, as Senator Voinovich
said, because we will know you will be doing the right thing,
and we do not need to bring you up every other day to quiz you.
Thank you very much.
Governor Napolitano. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks you, Senator Tester. Senator
Landrieu, good morning.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANDRIEU
Senator Landrieu. Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so
much. I always learn some most extraordinary things, Mr.
Chairman, when I come to your hearings. And this morning I am
happy that I now know who to thank for being able to keep my
mascara as I am traveling.
Chairman Lieberman. Yes.
Senator Landrieu. I did not know it was our own colleague.
Senator Collins----
Chairman Lieberman. I had the same reaction myself.
[Laughter.]
Senator Landrieu. Yes, I know you enjoy keeping yours.
Chairman Lieberman. Indeed.
Senator Landrieu. But also, more seriously, I want to
associate myself with the remarks of our Ranking Member on the
issue of interoperability, and thank her again and the Chairman
for their relentless work in this area. And although we have
made progress, we have obviously a great deal more to go. I
would only refer to one comment that will forever stick in my
mind when I was doing a CNN interview within a day or two of
Hurricane Katrina and I happened to be interviewed with the
National Guard general from Alabama, who I could not see but I
could hear because we were both being interviewed. And the
question was posed to him, ``General, what is the
communications system that you are using now?'' And I am going
to paraphrase, but his response was generally: ``I hate to
report, but we are basically using the technology that I
imagine we used during the Civil War when we were sending
runners,'' he said to the reporter. So I commented that was
basically the same thing happening in Louisiana.
So when I say on behalf of the people that I represent and
the 1,900 people that lost their lives in those days after this
catastrophe, I just can't impress upon you, should you be
confirmed as Secretary--and you will, in fact, have my vote
because of your outstanding credentials--the importance of
getting this right.
As I look at the firefighters on the front row, we don't
have to go too deep within ourselves to remember the horrifying
days in New York. And it is not fixed. This Committee has done
a tremendous amount of work in trying to fix it, but without
the right leadership pushing with us, it is impossible. So I
look forward to working with you on interoperability, but I
have two questions.
Madam Governor, in President Bush's last press conference,
which was just a few days ago, he was quoted as saying,
``People say, `Oh, well, the Federal response was slow.' Don't
tell me the Federal response was slow when there were 3,000
people pulled off the roofs right after the storm passed.'' He
was referring to Hurricane Katrina, prompted by a question by a
reporter. ``It's a pretty quick response.''
Apparently, the President has a lot on his mind the last 2
weeks of his Administration, and I can appreciate that. But a
cursory review of the historic record will reflect that
although the storm hit on Monday morning early in the morning
when hurricane force winds, Category 3 to 4, hit the
metropolitan area, it was not until Friday that the first
official military airplane or vehicle showed up.
Now, the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries was
there, the National Guard was called out under Governor
Blanco's direction, and the Coast Guard, God bless them, acted
on their own standing authority to rescue those people. But
when the real investigation is ever completed, if it ever is, I
think the record will probably indicate that more people saved
themselves by giving up and swimming or floating off their
roofs to safety than actually who was rescued.
Now, I don't know because there has been no real
investigation that thorough. However, having said that, no one,
except maybe the outgoing President, would say in the entire
world that the response was quick.
Can you briefly talk about your philosophy now as the
incoming Secretary of Homeland Security, and with your
experience as governor, how would you change the response? Do
you recognize the significant role that the Federal Government
must play in a catastrophic disaster, whether manmade or
naturally occurring? Which in our case was both.
Governor Napolitano. Senator, yes, I appreciate not only
the gravity of Hurricane Katrina and its uniquely catastrophic
impact, but also the fact that there is work left to be done.
And one of the things I would seek to do, should I be confirmed
as Secretary--and you and I have talked about this--is come
down to New Orleans with you and get a sense of where we are,
what needs to be done, what the obstacles are to completing the
work that is underway, and get at it.
I think that there have been a number of changes in FEMA
post-Katrina in response to this Committee and others, strong
and legitimate criticisms of what did not occur there on a
timely basis. But there still is work to be done as well. And
we want to make sure that, from my standpoint, FEMA plays a key
role in our Nation's homeland security, not just in mitigating
disasters before they occur and working to identify measures
that can be undertaken, but also in quick response, recovery,
and demonstrating the incredible resiliency of this country by
getting people back in their homes, back to work, and
communities re-established as quickly as possible. And those
are all areas that FEMA has expertise in. They must be
marshalled and then recognize that FEMA, like so many other
areas of this Department, has to work in cooperation with State
and local authorities, because so much of emergency preparation
and response initially is done at the State and local level,
because that is where the personnel are.
But there has to be training, education, communication--all
of those things that knit together an emergency response
framework that really works. It can be done. It has been done
in other situations. So it is not as if it has been a record of
uniform total historical failure. But it also can be improved.
Senator Landrieu. Thank you. And one more question. I know
I have just a limited time, so if we could have a brief answer
here.
The State of Louisiana--and I am sure Mississippi and Texas
are in this position as well; I don't have their specific
numbers--has appealed approximately 1,200 public assistance
projects, work order sheets, which you as a governor are very
familiar with. Over $1 billion are in dispute. But the actual
number is about 4,000 that basically FEMA and the State can't
come to grips with, so these projects are stalled, our recovery
is stalled, and jobs are being lost because of this.
We would like to get this fixed in the stimulus package
because the benefit is it doesn't cost any more money; we have
already appropriated it. If we could fix it, we could get the
recovery done and create jobs which would, I think, meet the
President's objectives.
But I just wanted to say for the record, in closing, and
then ask for a brief response, auditors hired by the State of
Louisiana, one of them in particular was RSMeans, which is a
construction cost standard firm that basically trains the FEMA
personnel. They were our auditors who said that the amount of
money that FEMA owed was X. Despite that independent record of
auditors that they obviously think well of because they trained
FEMA, they still will not pay the money that the State believes
it is owed.
Will you take an aggressive role to fix that? And would you
consider a binding arbitration system that we could get this
recovery underway or something equally as effective to resolve
the differences between States and FEMA on what is owed after a
disaster?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, I will take a serious look at
that, and also I look forward to working with you and this
Committee. I think all of us share the desire to work with
Louisiana and try to begin getting some closure on some of
these things.
Senator Landrieu. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks, Senator Landrieu.
I do want to mention, as Senator Landrieu indicated, that
there was one great agency that performed heroically, Federal
agency, post-Katrina and right away, and that is the U.S. Coast
Guard. And you are going to have the pleasure and honor of
working with them because, obviously, they are now part of the
Department. I say to those separationists, the Coast Guard,
which in some ways might be said to have a real strong claim to
be separate, seems to be very happy with the interaction in the
Department, which speaks to the integrity of the Department,
and also particularly of their connection in the Department to
FEMA because they are so much a part of rescue. But they really
were heroes.
Senator Levin, welcome. Glad you could come by.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LEVIN
Senator Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Welcome,
governor. You are a great appointment. We look forward to your
service.
I talked to you on the phone about a number of questions,
and I want to raise them here just very quickly. I know you
have been asked about the number of Border Patrol agents that
need to be hired, the additional ones, and the requirement in
law that 20 percent of the additional increase in agents be
assigned to the Northern border. The Northern border has been
shortchanged severely in terms of the number of agents. I think
at least one of my colleagues has already gone into that issue
with you.
Are you aware of the requirement that 20 percent of the
increase in Border Patrol agents be assigned to the Northern
border? Is that something you are familiar with?
Governor Napolitano. Yes, I am generally familiar with it,
Senator.
Senator Levin. All right. Will you take steps to see that
the requirement is met? So far it has not been. Only 6 percent
of the increase from 2006 to 2008 has been along the Northern
border. Will you take that on?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, I am going to look at the
entire allocation of Border Patrol and where they are, and
obviously, we want to make sure the allocations meet the
requirements of law.
Senator Levin. Thank you. I think you have also commented
on interoperability issues. It is the No. 1 request we get from
all law enforcement, an increased focus on interoperability,
the ability to communicate with each other at all levels of
government. Six of the demonstration grants are supposed to be
in border States because of the needs that we have, not just to
communicate with each other but also to communicate with Mexico
and Canada.
Is that something that you will look at and take seriously?
Governor Napolitano. Yes, Senator. And, indeed, I will
build on my own experience as governor of Arizona where at the
State level we built an interoperability project with the State
police of Sonora, Mexico, the State that borders us on the
south, just because of the reason that when issues happen and
you are a border area, they tend to go over the border.
Senator Levin. Thank you. The Permanent Subcommittee on
Investigations (PSI) of this Committee, which I chair, has
looked into foreign corruption and the ability of corrupt
foreign officials to receive financial safe haven here in the
United States. In August 2006, President Bush announced the
national strategy against kleptocracy, the use by corrupt
foreign officials of our financial system to hide money which
is improperly in their hands.
What role, if any, do you see in the effort to make sure
that kleptocrats do not receive safe haven physically or
financially in the United States?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, I think this is one of those
areas where the Department of Homeland Security has a
relationship with the Treasury Department and the Department of
Justice. All would have a role here, but, again, drawing on my
own experience, one of the ways you get at terrorism and
counterterrorism is through the money-laundering and the money
aspect channel. And I have a lot of experience in terms of
damming warrants and other things with respect to interrupting
the whole money aspect of not only terrorism, but human
trafficking and drug trafficking.
Senator Levin. At a time, governor, when demand for fire
grant funding appears to be increasing, the Administration has
continued to propose significant cuts in firefighter assistance
in our budgets. Given the need and increase in demand for fire
grants, to what extent do you believe the corresponding
increases in firefighter assistance is warranted?
Governor Napolitano. Again, Senator, this is an area that I
have much experience in. Many people don't know, but Arizona is
home to the largest Ponderosa pine forest in the continental
United States, and we have had large fires during the course of
my governorship, fires hundreds of thousands of acres in size.
So those grants are very important.
One other area I will want to look into, however, is
funding for fire prevention and restoration of forest health,
which might go a long way to helping us protect persons and
property before fires that are started by whatever cause become
these great big mega fires.
Senator Levin. Mr. Chairman, I am going to have to return
to the Armed Services Committee where we have four nominees
before us. I thank you and the Ranking Member for holding this
hearing and for prompt consideration of the governor's
nomination. I look forward to her confirmation. I do have
additional questions for the record. If we could get those
answered promptly, I would appreciate it.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks, Senator Levin. Thanks for
making the extra effort to come over. Give our regards, Senator
Collins' and mine, to our Committee Members on the Armed
Services Committee.
Senator Levin. I have explained your absence already.
Chairman Lieberman. Thank you.
Governor, we will go to a second round. It looks like the
three of us will go forward. I want to thank you for listing in
response to Senator Collins' question about substantive
priorities, after your understandable management priorities,
non-aviation transportation. I appreciate that very much
because I think it is urgent, unfinished business. We know that
terrorists struck transit systems in Madrid and London--and, in
fact, in Mumbai in, I believe it was, 2006 before the urban
jihadist attack of last November. The latest number I have seen
says that 14 million people use mass transit systems in the
United States every day, so these involve a lot of people.
I understand it is early in your term--in fact, it hasn't
even begun yet. But what thoughts do you have about the steps
you might take to improve homeland security in rail and transit
systems in our country?
Governor Napolitano. Well, Senator, should I be confirmed,
one of the things I want to do--first of all, there is some
real expertise in this country, and so I want to solicit their
advice. It is not necessary to reinvent the wheel here. Then
this is an area, again, where private entities need to be
brought to the table, and municipalities, the actual owners and
operators of these transportation systems. So we need to figure
out a way how do we do that on as expeditious a way as
possible.
And then we need to move forward and say what are the easy,
common-sense things--what is the low-hanging fruit--that we
should do now or within the next 30, 60, or 90 days? What
requires a longer-term strategy to accomplish? And really, just
as I told Senator Tester, I really want to look at a Northern
border strategy and plan, we want to do that for surface
transportation. And we don't want to wait for the plan to do
what we already know needs to be done, so you do that to get
yourself started. But then things should fit into a longer-term
strategy.
Chairman Lieberman. We are going to do a lot of work
together on this, and obviously, there is a lot to be learned
at this point from other countries that are dealing with this
problem.
Interestingly, I think I mentioned when we spoke in my
office, the Pew Research Center did a poll on various
government services a while ago and asked the American people
to rate them, favorable or unfavorable. And, interestingly,
encouragingly, and probably surprisingly to some people, one of
the highest-rated Federal services was the Transportation
Security Agency. It was at 70 percent or higher. Unfortunately,
one of the lowest rated was border security. I want to come
back to that in a minute.
One of the theories given by the organization that did the
polling was that maybe more people have contact with TSA and
they are generally positive. People are troubled by the
controversies around border security. But I know that, being a
border security governor, you know that these are real problems
that go to the integrity of our immigration law and also,
obviously, to our security.
Senator McCaskill asked you about enforcement of some of
the laws relating to employing illegal immigrants. And Senator
Tester did somewhat with regard to using law enforcement
personnel. I want to ask you more broadly, as you come in with
some experience in border security, what are your thoughts
about how better to secure our border and enforce our
immigration laws? We have struggled with this. We have acted on
it. We have spent a lot of money so far. Do you think we should
attempt to cover the entire Southern border with a fence?
Maybe I will stop there and let you begin to answer.
Governor Napolitano. Well, I think border security requires
a system, and a system has several parts to it. It requires
boots on the ground. And so one of the things I will be
counting as the Secretary, is not just how many agents we have
or in training or what have you, but how many boots on the
ground do we have in places at shift time.
It requires technology. It requires things like ground
sensors. The SBInet, which has had a problematic start, is
something that I think, however, could hold great promise, and
we want to keep pushing the issue of technology, because these
borders are vast and manpower alone is not going to do it. You
need to be able to augment manpower with technology and keep
pushing that technology fence, as it were.
There is a role for some fencing, particularly around urban
areas, because it helps prevent those who are crossing
illegally from blending immediately into a town population. But
these borders are so vast that the notion that a fence alone is
worth the expense to go, say, from San Diego to Brownsville, I
don't think I would be giving good advice to the Committee if I
said that is the way we are going to protect the border. It
needs to be done strategically as part of a border system.
And then you have got to have interior enforcement because
once someone has run the gauntlet of the border, if they get
through--and we have to anticipate that you are never going to
have 100 percent protection against that--you need to have some
means of interior enforcement, and that really is where the
employer actions come in.
I would like to mention as well, however, Senator, that
there are those who use that border not just for labor. I mean,
there are drug traffickers, there are human traffickers, and we
have to be cognizant that there could be potential terrorists
using that border.
Chairman Lieberman. Sure.
Governor Napolitano. To the extent we deploy law
enforcement to deal with the illegal immigrant coming to work,
we have to do the right thing to make sure that we continue the
key focus on those that are coming to do real evil in our
country and make sure that we haven't diluted our law
enforcement resources to such a degree that we don't really
have an adequate focus on those evildoers. And I want to make
sure that we are working with State, locals, and other
organizations on those borders, Northern and Southern, and that
we are creating a good balance.
I have a particular concern right now. Mexico, as you know,
is undergoing a very serious issue with violence related to
President Calderon's really quite admirable initiative going
after the big drug cartels. But it has caused a lot of violence
in those border States along the U.S. borders.
Chairman Lieberman. Right.
Governor Napolitano. So we have to be very cognizant of
that, in addition to all the other concerns.
Chairman Lieberman. When we spoke in my office, you had
some interesting, practical, common-sense things to say about
your experience in Arizona with the National Guard in terms of
border enforcement. I wonder if you would expand on that a
little bit now? Do you think we ought to make use of the
National Guard in terms of border security?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, I was one of the first
governors to say the National Guard could play a very useful
role here to augment Border Patrol, not to substitute for it
but to augment it, so, in essence, you expand the manpower
hours that we have. And I look forward to working with
Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to see whether there is and
can be a continuing role for the National Guard at the borders.
Chairman Lieberman. Am I right that one of your conclusions
or feelings was that the presence of the National Guard or even
the announcement that the National Guard was involved in border
security had a deterrent effect, perhaps particularly on some
of those evildoers who are thinking of coming over, like drug
dealers and human traffickers?
Governor Napolitano. Yes, Senator, that was my perception.
When Operation Jump Start began, which was the name given to
the National Guard at the border initiative, there was an awful
lot of press in Mexico about it. And I think that press in and
of itself was very helpful.
Chairman Lieberman. Well, I agree with that position. I
know it has all sorts of sensitivities, but I thank you for
your intention stated here to work with Secretary Gates and the
Department of Defense on this. And I think it could be done in
a thoughtful way that can both assure the enforcement of our
laws and also keep out some of the people we want to keep out.
Thank you.
Senator Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor, the challenges of border security on the Northern
border are very different from the focus on the Southern
border. And I have already invited you to come to Maine to
learn more about those challenges. But let me just give you a
few examples.
In border communities in Maine, Canadian nurses are
absolutely essential to the operation of some of the smaller
hospitals. They are crossing back and forth every single day.
There is a golf course in northern Maine where the course
is on the American side of the border, and the clubhouse is on
the Canadian side of the border. And, lately, Customs and
Border Protection is trying to enforce the crossing of the
border in a way that affects that golf course.
Another example is a potato farmer in northern Maine who
literally has fields on both sides of the border. It is not
really practical for him to have to drive many miles to go to a
crossing in order to plow his fields.
There are all sorts of practical realities because, prior
to the attacks on our country on September 11, 2001, the border
was very integrated in Maine. And it still is in many ways.
Many families have relatives on both sides of the border.
We are going to be facing, in June, the full implementation
of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, which has caused
some concern in the State of Maine about what the impact will
be on legitimate travel and trade. I would also point out that
Canada is our biggest trading partner in the United States. An
astonishing $1.5 billion of trade occurs every day between the
U.S. and Canada.
What will you do to ensure that as we keep implementing
more stringent security requirements, we do not impede the
legitimate flow of travel and trade between two friendly
countries?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, your question really
illustrates how there are two competing interests really in the
border area. One is security and we must continue to work to
enforce the law, our immigration laws and our laws to keep
evildoers out. But there are border communities all over where
people need to go back and forth and have for years, for
generations. So how do you accommodate those within an ever-
increasing border enforcement strategy?
I think it is going to require some creativity on our part,
and without saying today what we are going to do, I do have
some ideas in this regard. One may be the kinds of
identification that can be used by those who live on the border
and must go back and forth regularly versus those that are only
episodic travelers, say, for example.
So I will look forward to working with you on some ideas
there, but I think you recognize that there are a lot of
legitimate family, trade, commerce, and tourism issues that are
embodied here, even as we enforce border security, and that
really an effective border security mechanism means that we
have to accommodate both of those competing tensions.
Senator Collins. Thank you. I look forward to working with
you on that.
Governor, there are a couple of Federal programs where you
have been critical of the implementation, and now you are going
to be in a position to solve all of these problems. I want to
talk to you about two of them. One is a series of exercises
that the Department of Homeland Security undertakes with State
and local governments called the Top Officials (TOPOFF)
exercises. I have participated in two of those, and my
impression is quite different from yours. I thought they were
very well run, very helpful to State and local governments, and
focused on real-life scenarios.
By contrast, in October 2007, you participated in a TOPOFF
exercise and were very critical in a letter that you sent to
Secretary Chertoff in early November 2007,\1\ in which you
described the process as ``too expensive, too protracted, and
too removed from a real-world scenario.'' You also said there
wasn't sufficient information sharing, there wasn't a good
feedback system.
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\1\ The letter to Secretary Chertoff referenced by Senator Collins
appears in the Appendix on page 213.
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Well, now you are going to be in charge of those TOPOFF
exercises. What are you going to do to address the concerns
that you experienced?
Governor Napolitano. Thank you, Senator. What goes around
comes around, I guess is the point there. But one of the key
concerns I had was the expense. I think exercises benefit from
frequency, and one of the real benefits to be gained is people
learning how to work with each other, who to call, who is going
to be on the other end of a communique, who is prepared to
stand up under what circumstances.
One of the problems with TOPOFF is they are so gigantic and
expensive that they really do not permit that.
A second one is that they are too slow to get feedback to
the participants. For example, we participated in October 2007.
We don't yet have an analysis of what happened, why, and what
worked and didn't work. Well, now the top officials who were
involved in that, such as myself, many of us have moved on.
So if we are going to be doing these kinds of things--and
they are valuable. The underlying philosophy is a good one. But
they need to be, in my view, streamlined, and the response in
terms of analysis, improvements, and recommendations needs to
be much quicker.
Senator Collins. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I will wait to
ask my next question until after Senator Carper.
Chairman Lieberman. Good. Then we will do one more quick
round.
Senator Carper, thanks for coming. I know you have had a
busy morning, but we appreciate seeing you. You are a very
steadfast Member of the Committee, but you are always here when
there is a governor testifying.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER
Senator Carper. I come before you as a recovering governor.
[Laughter.]
And with a little luck, you will come before us as a
recovering governor in the years to come. I want to thank you
for your service to the people of Arizona and to say it was a
real pleasure to serve with you as a member of the board that
you chaired for Jobs for America's Graduates, which is a
nonprofit organization that is designed to help reduce dropouts
in our schools. Thank you for that. I enjoyed that very much
and appreciated your leadership then and as the governor of
Arizona, and I look forward to your leadership in the
Department of Homeland Security.
I apologize for being late. We are saying good-bye today to
two of our colleagues, and one of those is our State's senior
Senator, Joe Biden. And for 2 months now, ever since he was
elected Vice President-elect, people have been calling me
``senior Senator.'' And people kept coming up to my wife and me
at dinner at the national convention after he had been
nominated and saying to my wife, ``Well, how does it feel? Your
husband is going to be a senior Senator.'' And she would say,
``I don't know.''
We got back to our hotel room that night, and she said, ``I
just have one question about this senior Senator stuff.'' I
said, ``What is that?'' She said, ``Does it pay more?''
[Laughter.]
I said, ``Well, no.'' And she said, ``Well, who cares?''
But Joe Biden is going to be senior Senator for another 5
hours and 2 minutes. Then it is my turn.
Governor Napolitano. There you go.
Senator Carper. And we will usher him out the door. But we
just said good-bye. I have had to follow him on giving speeches
in Delaware for 30 years. He is about as good as there is. And
I had to follow him again today on the Senate floor as he said
good-bye and as we said good-bye to him. And then when we
finished that, Hillary Clinton gave her farewell address. It
was very moving, very poignant. And so I apologize for being
late, but I hope you understand.
Later this weekend, in fact, there is a train coming down
from Philadelphia to Washington, DC. They are going to make a
stop in Wilmington, and Vice-President-elect Joe Biden and
President-elect Barack Obama will make their way down to our
Nation's capital, sort of a modern-day version of the whistle-
stop tour, and we are excited about it and looking forward to
it.
I know in Arizona you have some trains and other public
transit. I come from a part of the country where there is a
whole lot more of that, as you know. And we have more people in
the tunnels that lead under the river into New York City at any
given time than would fill up seven or eight 747s. During the
course of a day, I think there are hundreds of thousands of
people who are in those tunnels. Every day people are going up
and down the Northeast corridor going through the Baltimore
tunnel, which is about 150 years old. We have all kinds of
bridges in places where people can do mischief to the folks
that are using our trains or our transit. But we have been
blessed and fortunate that we have not had the kind of terror
attacks that they had in London and Madrid where a lot of lives
have been lost. But I know others have spoken to you here today
about making sure we don't just focus on air travel, but we
must also focus on rail. And given the sort of renaissance that
is going on with train travel across this country--ridership is
up again this year by more than 10 percent. More and more
people are taking the rails, not just in the Northeast
corridor, but I think throughout densely populated corridors.
So I would just ask that you be mindful of that.
I also learned recently that during the altercation where
the Russian troops moved into Georgia, it was not just Russian
troops that moved in, but they did a pretty good job of really
almost eliminating the ability of the Georgian country to
operate in a lot of ways simply through cyber attacks.
Apparently, they did something on a more modest level with
another country, one of the Baltic countries, I think it was
Estonia.
Sitting here today, our Nation is under attack. Many of our
departments are under attack. And it is not just by kids, it is
not just by criminal elements. It is by sovereign nations
trying to hack their way into our Department of Defense--trying
to steal our weapons system ideas--and any number of other
places, not just folks interested in capturing and stealing
somebody's identity, but actually putting our Nation at peril
and at risk.
I would just ask you to share with us some of your
thoughts, and I know this is something you are interested in
and know about, but just share with us some of your thoughts as
to how we can better address these threats--because my
suspicion is those threats will not be diminishing during the
time that you lead the Department of Homeland Security. If
anything, they are going to be increasing. During the hearings
of the Subcommittee on Federal Financial Management, Government
Information, Federal Services, and International Security that
Senator Coburn and I have held, it has been suggested that we
are not doing all we can do on that front. But I would welcome
your comments as to what we might do.
Governor Napolitano. Well, Senator Carper, in earlier
comments, I mentioned cyber infrastructure specifically as
something that I think we are, in some important respects, at
the beginning of attacking the attacks, as it were. And this
is, again, one of those areas where the Department of Homeland
Security, the Department of Defense, the Nation's intelligence
structure, and others all have some kind of cyber aspect. But
the Department of Homeland Security has a key and central role
to play. We have the cyber center, but I think it is not
heavily staffed; and I think this is an area that I am going to
want to plow very deeply, very quickly, because I know that
President-elect Obama has said several times that this is an
area where he wants to get a national strategy and a national
coordinated plan going--and using the best and brightest minds
that we have in America where the cyber world is concerned, to
make sure that we are employing them to help us protect that
very valuable infrastructure.
Senator Carper. I understand. Some of our adversaries are
trying to figure out now how to hack into BlackBerrys,
particularly BlackBerrys that are possessed by Presidents-
elect. And so I say this with tongue in cheek, but the threats
are very real.
Another issue that I am sure has been raised with you, I
will just ask this one as well, and if you have already
addressed it, maybe you can just truncate your response. But
there have been a lot of discussions--all the imaginable debate
we had when we put together Homeland Security as a Department--
as to what should be in, what should be out. Should FEMA report
directly to the President? Should it not? How do we put all
this together and not end up with what we call in Delaware a
``dog's breakfast''? And I am sure there are days when some
people think what we have created is very much that.
But in terms of the structural change, what do you see
about it that you like, that, for God's sake, don't change
this, this makes sense? And what are some things you think
might make some sense? Or is it just too early to say?
Governor Napolitano. Well, I think, Senator, my key focus
is to make the organization that we have work even better.
There have been a number of reorganizations even within the
Department's short life. All of those interrupt, cause delay,
and so forth. And I think where I am going to start right now
is take the organization we have, and how do we make it even
better as opposed to moving a lot of boxes around?
Senator Carper. I think we once had a Defense Secretary who
said about our war in Iraq that you ``go with the Army you have
been given.'' And so you will have a chance to go with the
Department that you have been given. We look forward to not
only working with you on the issue of cyber attacks and the
issues of rail safety, but we look forward to working with you
once you have had a chance to settle in and decide what does
make sense and, frankly, what does not and to see if there are
any changes that should be made.
I have always felt that the most important thing is not
necessarily the structure of an organization, although that is
important, but even more important, the kind of people that we
choose to provide leadership in the various parts of that
organization. We did not always do so well in the current
Administration picking leadership, especially in areas of first
responders. And FEMA is a good example of that and the poster
child for that. But we have a responsibility to scrutinize and
look closely at the people that the Administration sends to us
for confirmation, and I would just encourage you to find people
who know how to do the jobs to which they have been nominated.
Thank you again for your willingness to take this on.
Hopefully, you will be confirmed, I am pretty sure you are
going to be, and if that happens, we just very much look
forward to working with you. Thank you.
Governor Napolitano. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks, Senator Carper. Listening to
your telling of the conversation with your wife about being the
senior Senator, it struck me that if my late mother were here,
she would say to you that the reward you deserve for being the
senior Senator from Delaware, you will have to probably wait to
receive it until the world to come. And so I hope that gives
your wife some encouragement. [Laughter.]
You shouldn't arrive there too soon. But, anyway, we thank
you for your service, senior or junior, on this Committee and
in the Senate.
Senator Carper. Mr. Chairman, the only thing I would say in
response to that comment is that I would ask unanimous consent
to put my full statement in the record.
[The prepared statement of Senator Carper follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My thanks to you, as well, Governor
Napolitano for giving up what I know as a former governor is a great
job to take on the challenge of managing the Department of Homeland
Security.
Your new job, if you are confirmed, Governor, will certainly come
with its share of challenges. I know you're aware of that. But it will
also present you with some opportunities.
We've spent a lot of time and money since September 11, 2001, and
since the creation of the Department of Homeland Security preparing for
certain kinds of attacks. But going on 8 years since those events, we
have a chance--and I would argue an obligation--to evaluate what we've
done to date, to see what has worked and what has not, and to re-focus
our efforts and our scarce resources on the new threats we face. I
suspect that at least some of those threats were not even on our radar
screens on September 11, 2001, or even a few years ago.
One of these newer threats that we need to work to address is the
threat of cyber attack.
Over the past few years, Senator Coburn and I have held several
hearings in our Subcommittee on the importance of protecting the
Nation's critical infrastructure and sensitive information from cyber
attacks. We learned that our economic infrastructure and our military
and government operations are at extreme risk of being hindered or, in
some cases, shut down altogether as a result of some well-documented
and exploitable weaknesses.
Since we began our oversight, the threat has become an increasingly
scary reality. Over the past year, we have seen two sovereign nations
undergo cyber attack by Russia. In addition, the Departments of
Defense, State, and Commerce have had their networks hijacked by China.
Utilities and financial institutions have also come under attack. I'm
not certain that the Federal Government and the Department of Homeland
Security in particular are prepared to address these challenges.
I also question our efforts in the area of transit security,
including inter-city passenger rail.
We can all walk into an airport and see the efforts that have been
undertaken to make flying safer since September 11, 2001. That is not
the case with transit security despite the fact that some of the worst
terrorist attacks we've seen since September 11, 2001, have occurred on
mass transit in cities like London and Madrid. I'm not advocating that
we replicate the security procedures we have in place at airports, at
train and bus stations but I do think that we need to do more than we
have done to date to protect those of us who rely on Amtrak and transit
on a daily basis.
Those issues--cyber security and transit security--are just two of
the many that this change in leadership gives us a chance to look at
with a fresh set of eyes. I look forward to working with you and your
team, Governor, as you take the reins of the department and do just
that.
Thank you again, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Lieberman. I want to come back to some issues
related to how people get into the country that are under your
jurisdiction as Secretary. I want to mention one that you may
not have been briefed on, but I want to try to put it on your
radar screen because it has concerned me. It relates to the
Visa Waiver Program, which I think is a good program. The
intentions are good. And it has both commercial advantage to
make it easier for tourists to get in here, and it is also a
diplomatic step with regard to certainly countries in the
former Soviet Union who have now become our close and very
supportive allies.
But it does involve risk when you make it easier for people
to come in here, and this risk is not just or even primarily
associated with the new countries that have been allowed into
the Visa Waiver Program. It is true of the countries that have
been in there a long time in Western Europe. After all Zacarias
Moussaoui, one of the September 11, 2001, terrorists, came in
from France. Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, came in from
England.
This Committee was very concerned about this potential
vulnerability that was inherent in the Visa Waiver Program, and
in the second wave of 9/11 Commission legislation in 2007, we
included a provision to secure the Visa Waiver Program, and the
goal, to put it simply, was to make sure that any passenger who
got on an airline from one of the Visa Waiver countries had to
be checked against a terrorist watchlist before they could get
onto the airplane.
The Department now has created a mechanism for doing this
which they call the Electronic System of Travel Authorization
(ESTA). In fact, it went into effect on Monday of this week.
But I, as you may know, have made no secret of the fact that
while I am a supporter of the Visa Waiver Program, I believe
the Department moved much too quickly to certify the Electronic
System of Travel Authorization as operational in order to allow
the new countries to get into the program. And the fact is that
GAO has been critical of ESTA, and even some Department
officials have confirmed to our Committee that airlines lack
the ability to determine whether travelers from Visa Waiver
Program countries have obtained travel authorizations from
ESTA.
So I don't know whether you have been briefed on it. If you
have any preliminary thoughts about it, I would welcome them.
If not, I would ask that you make this a priority of your
attention as you come in.
Governor Napolitano. Well, Senator Lieberman, as I
responded to Senator Voinovich, the whole visa waiver issue is
a balance between the security needs of our country and public
diplomacy. In some ways, it is reminiscent of actual
enforcement of border security. There is the good and the bad
that always need to be looked at.
Secretary Chertoff did brief me on ESTA over the course of
the last 6 weeks, but I have not had the opportunity,
obviously, to look into what actually has occurred and what is
the capacity there that has been operationalized. So I will be
happy to look into that and to work with you on that, Senator.
Chairman Lieberman. I appreciate it. A final question from
me, a very different kind of question related to how people get
into the country, and that is, how we treat those who seek
asylum in our country. I have been interested in this for a
number of years, particularly after a report of the--I forgot
the official name, but it is a commission on religious freedom
that was set up by our government that reports periodically.
They did a searing report on the way in which people are coming
to the United States seeking asylum based on discrimination,
and worse, in their home countries because of their religion,
and also relates to people seeking political asylum, in the way
that they are housed. I understand that this right of asylum
can be gamed. We all understand that. That is why we create a
filter. But non-criminal aliens here are being housed for very
long periods of time in high-security detention facilities and,
because there is not enough of them, in local and county jails
where they are often denied medical care or basic needs. That
is just the finding that the commission and others have had.
They are also not permitted to request their release from an
immigration judge. So it is just the kind of behavior that we
do not want to continue particularly for people who have in
mind those moving words on the base of the Statue of Liberty
about this being a sanctuary for those seeking freedom, as it
has been.
So I wanted to ask you whether you have any information on
that or an opinion now. Or as Secretary, of course, would you
consider taking steps to improve the treatment of asylum
seekers while obviously also carrying out the law to make sure
that they have a genuine cause to be granted asylum here in the
United States?
Governor Napolitano. Mr. Chairman, you are correct. I have
not spent a lot of time working my way through that particular
issue. I have been giving some attention to the whole area of
detention and the ICE facilities. But I will be more than happy
to drill down, look into what is there, what allegations are
being made, if they really fact based, and to work with you and
your staff on this.
Chairman Lieberman. Good. Thank you. Senator Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor, in October, you sent a very strong letter to the
Federal Government with an invoice calling upon the Federal
Government to reimburse Arizona for more than $500 million for
incarcerating criminal aliens.\1\ And you say in the letter,
``By refusing to fully reimburse Arizona for its SCAAP''--the
acronym for the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program--
``costs, the Federal Government has unfairly forced Arizona to
bear the Federal Government's costs arising from its failure to
adequately secure its borders.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ The lettter to Attorney General Mukasey referenced by Senator
Collins appears in the Appendix on page 215.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suspect maybe in October you were not aware that you
might be the Secretary of Homeland Security.
Now you are going to have a role to play not only in border
security, but in helping to set priorities in the budget for
the new Administration. Do you think this bill should be paid
now?
Governor Napolitano. Senator, first of all, the bill went
to the Attorney General of the United States, so if the
governor----
Senator Collins. Still the Federal Government.
Governor Napolitano [continuing]. Of Arizona sends a bill,
I will be happy to give it to the Attorney General. [Laughter.]
But the greater point remains, and that is, I think one of
the reasons President-elect Obama asked me to serve in this
position is the real-world experience I have had in dealing
with an immigration system which, when broken, falls unfairly
on border States. Five hundred million for a State like
Arizona, where the annual budget is just about $10 billion, is
a lot of money. So I would hope to contribute to the
discussions within the Executive Branch and bring to bear that
experience and suggest some options that might be proposed.
Senator Collins. In all seriousness, it is a significant
burden for border States, and I do think given that the law
requires the reimbursement and, as you eloquently point out in
your letter, the Federal Government is only paying pennies on
the dollar, it is an issue that does need to be reviewed. And I
think it is very helpful to have a governor in the Cabinet who
has been on the other side of unfunded mandates and unfulfilled
promises.
A similar one is the REAL ID law. I completely support the
goal of having more secure driver's licenses. The 9/11
Commission pointed out that some of the hijackers were able to
use their licenses in order to board airplanes. It is
unacceptable that people in this country illegally are able to
get driver's licenses because it is a gateway card. On the
other hand, there is no doubt that it is an expensive process
for States to come into compliance.
I do hope that you will work to come up with additional
financial assistance to help States comply with the goals of
the REAL ID program. Otherwise, we are imposing a very
expensive unfunded Federal mandate on the States.
Governor Napolitano. Well, Senator Collins, as I said to
Senator Akaka earlier, it is the unfunded mandate aspect of it,
but I think getting governors back to the table is important as
well because in the end, if it is going to work, the States
really are where it is going to be operationalized. And so we
are going to have to build that partnership in a much different
way than we have had heretofore.
Senator Collins. And, finally, I do have some questions
that I would ask to submit for the record as well as some
questions for the record from Senators Specter and Grassley
that I would ask unanimous consent be submitted as well.
I do want to reinforce what the Chairman said about the
Coast Guard. It is an absolute gem. It is the one agency at all
levels of government that performed extraordinarily well in the
wake of Hurricane Katrina. It needs budget help, especially
given the new White House directive on the Arctic Region. It is
going to have the need for additional ice breakers, and I am
going to be submitting some questions to you about that as
well.
And, finally, I would be remiss in my capacity as the
Ranking Minority Member if I did not supplement the question
that the Chairman asked you at the beginning, and that is to
ask you, in addition to responding to requests for information
from the Chairman or joint requests, will you also be
responsive to requests for data and other information from
Minority Members of this Committee?
Governor Napolitano. Yes. And with respect to the Coast
Guard, Senator Collins, I would be remiss if I didn't mention
that the Admiral in charge, the Commandant of the Coast Guard,
is actually from Arizona.
Senator Collins. That seafaring State.
Governor Napolitano. There it is. [Laughter.]
Senator Collins. Surprising. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And,
again, I want to join you in expressing my hope for a very long
and productive relationship with the nominee.
Chairman Lieberman. Thanks, Senator Collins. Without
objection, the questions from our colleagues will be submitted
for the record.
We are going to keep the record open until the close of
business today for the submission of any written questions or
statements for the record. Now, that is very quick, but that is
because of the sense of urgency that the Committee has about
how important it is to get you confirmed as soon after
President-elect Obama becomes our President by taking the oath
as soon as possible.
Governor, I thank you for your testimony today. You have
been very informed, very helpful. Occasionally, you have been
funny. [Laughter.]
And overall you have shown yourself ready to take on the
awesome responsibilities that come with being Secretary of
Homeland Security. I would be very proud to support your
nomination on the floor, and I look forward to working with
you, as I know Senator Collins does, in the years ahead.
With that, the hearing is adjourned.
Governor Napolitano. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 12:19 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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