Transcript: State Department's Jones on World Fight Against Terrorism
(9/25 on "Dialogue": Assistant Secretary Elizabeth Jones) (7630) "The effort that is underway to build an international coalition against global terrorism really is already very successful," the State Department's Elizabeth Jones told journalists September 25. Jones, assistant secretary of State for European and Eurasian affairs, said the coalition "includes all the countries who stand on the side of fighting global terrorism. There is a very clear line that has been drawn now between those who support terrorism or harbor terrorists and those who have joined the battle against them. That means that any country or any organization that has decided to support the fight against global terrorism is part of the coalition." She distinguished between the "strictly military" coalition that was involved in the Gulf War, and what is being developed now: "a very broad political international coalition of countries who are prepared to fight the war against terrorism through any means available to us, including the financial means... intelligence sharing, et cetera." Involvement by other nations can range from political and diplomatic support, to intelligence sharing, to permitting overflights and offering other types of military support, "all the way through joint operations when the time comes to root out the terrorists in Afghanistan, and to root out terrorists elsewhere in the world," Jones said. Jones stressed that "this is not just a fight against Osama bin Laden. It is a fight against all forms of terrorism, all terrorists around the world." The assistant secretary was speaking on the State Department's "Dialogue" interactive television broadcast, responding to questions from journalists in Lisbon, Paris and Rome. Asked whether the U.S. goal in Afghanistan is the overthrow of the Taliban regime, Jones replied: "No, the objective is to ensure that the foreign invader, the new foreign invader of Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden, is rooted out with his senior lieutenants." Noting that the United States has provided $173 million in humanitarian aid to Afghanistan this year, she emphasized that the international fight against terrorism "is by no means against the Afghan people. It is against Osama bin Laden and the al Qaeda organization." "This is going to be a war in the shadows. ... It has to be done very carefully. It has to be done deliberately," Jones said. President Bush has said that the campaign against terrorism will be a long battle, she said: "We know that there is not a quick solution." Asked about the stance of the ex-Soviet republics, Jones said the countries of Central Asia, the Caucasus, the Balkans, Ukraine "very much put themselves on the side of the line in support of the international fight against global terrorism. But exactly what each country is prepared to do remains a subject between the allies and them." On the U.S. relationship with Russia, Jones said, "Russia has stood clearly on the side of the fight against terrorism; but the United States' relationship with Russia is much broader than that." She cited economic initiatives and talks with Russia about "a new strategic framework ...relative to the ABM [Anti-Ballistic Missile] Treaty." Jones made a special point of thanking Europeans on behalf of the U.S. government and all Americans "for the outpouring of support and condolences" that came in the aftermath of the September 11th terrorist attacks." "We were very grateful also for the support of NATO, of the U.N. Security Council, of the U.N. General Assembly, of the European Union, of the OAS [Organization of American States] -- many, many organizations around the world who have expressed their very solid support for the global fight against terrorism," Jones said. Following is a transcript of the program: (begin transcript) "DIALOGUE" UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE Office of Broadcast Services Washington, D.C. GUEST: Ambassador Elizabeth Jones, Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs, U.S. State Department TOPIC: AFTERMATH OF SEPTEMBER 11TH ATTACKS ON AMERICA: INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT IN FIGHTING TERRORISM POSTS: Lisbon, Paris, Rome HOST: Rick Foucheux DATE: September 25, 2001 TIME: 10:00 - 11:00 EDT (Begin videotape.) ANNOUNCER: On September 11th, enemies of freedom waged war upon America as they plunged two hijacked planes into the twin towers of New York City's World Trade Center, demolishing the center, as well as over 6,000 lives. Nearly 40 minutes later they crashed yet another hijacked plane into the United States Pentagon in Washington, D.C., causing even more destruction, and claiming even more lives. If that weren't enough, 20 minutes later another hijacked plane crashed into a field in Pennsylvania. Analysts believe that plane was also headed to Washington, D.C., if it hadn't been for the courage of its passengers who thwarted the hijackers efforts. The heroism continued as volunteers everywhere -- fire fighters, blood donors, doctors, counselors and corporate donors, came to the aid of their fellow Americans. (End videotape.) MR. FOUCHEUX: Hello, and welcome to "Dialogue," I'm Rick Foucheux. Who attacked America? The prime suspect is Saudi-born dissident Osama bin Laden, the leader of al Qaeda, a loosely knit coalition of terrorist organizations operating across continent. The organizations practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism and are responsible for the bombings of American embassies in Africa in 1998, and the U.S.S. Cole last year. The Taliban regime in Afghanistan has been providing a safe haven for bin Laden, as well as sponsoring and supporting terrorist training camps there. On September 20th, President Bush addressed Congress and a stricken nation, proclaiming an all-out war against global terrorism, urging Afghanistan to release bin Laden, and for every nation to join in the fight against global terrorism. PRESIDENT BUSH (from videotape): The hour is coming when America will act, and you will make us proud. (Applause.) This is not, however, just America's fight. And what is at stake is not just America's freedom. This is the world's fight. This is civilization's fight. This is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom. We ask every nation to join us. We will ask, and we will need, the help of police forces, intelligence services, and banking systems around the world. The United States is grateful that many nations and many international organizations have already responded -- with sympathy and with support -- nations from Latin America, to Asia, to Africa, to Europe, to the Islamic world. Perhaps the NATO Charter reflects best the attitude of the world: An attack on one is an attack on all. The civilized world is rallying to America's side. They understand that if this terror goes unpunished, their own cities, their own citizens may be next. Terror, unanswered, cannot only bring down buildings, it can threaten the stability of legitimate governments. And you know what -- we're not going to allow it. (Applause.) MR. FOUCHEUX: Here today to discuss the attack on America and international cooperation in fighting the war against global terrorism, is our very distinguished guest, Ambassador Elizabeth Jones, assistant secretary for European and Eurasian affairs at the United States Department of State. We also welcome our participants who are standing by in Lisbon, Paris and Rome. But before we join them, Ambassador Jones, welcome to the program. We are glad that you could join us. Do you have some opening remarks? AMB. JONES: Thank you very much. I am very, very pleased to be have been invited to speak with you today. I am very interested in your questions and a dialogue on this very serious subject. But first I would like to express the gratitude not only of the U.S. government, but of all Americans, for the outpouring of support and condolences that came from all of you and all of your countries in this very terrible moment after September 11th. We were very grateful also for the support of NATO, of the U.N. Security Council, of the U.N. General Assembly, of the European Union, of the OAS -- many, many organizations around the world who have expressed their very solid support for the global fight against terrorism. Thank you. MR. FOUCHEUX: And again we thank you for being with us today, ambassador. Now we join our participants who are standing by in Lisbon, Paris and Rome. Lisbon, we'll begin with you. Q: Good morning, Ambassador Jones, this is Eduardo Mascaraniz (ph) from the Portuguese daily newspaper -- (inaudible) -- Noticias. I would like to pose to you sort of a general opening question to our debate. Do you think that the European countries, particularly the European Union itself, are doing as much as they should be doing today? And do you think that if there was already a European defense and security common policy, it would be useful? Because I think that during the past or nearly the past the United States has doubts about the European policies. AMB. JONES: Thank you very much for the opportunity to address that question. Yes, we do think that the European Union is doing as much as it can. We are extremely impressed that the European ministers of interior and justice ministers, the European finance ministers, have already met. They have agreed on measures on how to close down the financing that supports terrorist organizations. They have agreed on measures to increase security around the globe in aircraft. We have been part of that dialogue in the sense that we have been asked for our comments on the kinds of things that might be useful. And we are very, very grateful for the very fast action of the European Union in addressing so many of these critical issues. In terms of the second part of your question, on the European Security and Defense Identity, the United States is very grateful that the European Union has worked to further that kind of a concept. The concept is still under discussion. There's still a lot of things that need to be addressed, but the dialogue is underway in a very positive vein. MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you in Lisbon for that question. Let's move now though to Paris, and your first question or comment. Q: Yes, good morning, Ambassador Jones, I am Christian Mallau (ph), senior foreign analyst of France Free Television. I totally agree with President Bush when he says that they have to track the terrorists' financial networks, bin Laden and everything, in total cooperation with the allies. But how are you going to really coordinate all that? I don't think it's -- you know, it's between talking and acting sometimes there are big gaps. And the past makes me think that it's going to be a difficult task ahead. How do you view that? AMB. JONES: I think there's no question that this will not be easy. But all of us have been very impressed with the speed with which the international intelligence organizations, the intelligence organizations of each country, began to work together really very quickly to share intelligence, to pool resources -- international police organizations, justice ministers, as I mentioned earlier, have been very, very quick to come up with ways to coordinate this fight against global terrorism. I think that as the president has said, and others in the United States government have said, this is a long battle. We know that there is not a quick solution. It's very important to get at various aspects of what it is that we need to do, whether it's the finance network, intelligence to make sure that we are going after the right people; intelligence to make certain that we are pulling together the evidence for this terrible crime that was wrought against humanity. And I am convinced that we are going to be able to do this internationally in the way that we should. MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you in Paris. And now hello in Rome. Q: Yes, it's -- (inaudible) -- newspaper La Stampa -- remember the great coalition against Saddam some years ago. In this great coalition against terrorism, what problems do you think we could have? AMB. JONES: I'm not sure I understood your question. You're asking what problem we might have in actually building a coalition? Q: Yes, in this great coalition against terrorism, we could have a problem, a political problem, with some countries in the world? AMB. JONES: I think I understand your question well enough to address it. The effort that is underway to build an international coalition against global terrorism really is already very successful. The coalition includes all the countries who stand on the side of fighting global terrorism. There is a very clear line that has been drawn now between those who support terrorism or harbor terrorists and those who have joined the battle against them. That means that any country or any organization that has decided to support the fight against global terrorism is part of the coalition. Political support, diplomatic support, is maybe at one end of the spectrum -- intelligence sharing is further along that spectrum; providing overflights and cooperation on the military front is part of that effort; all the way through joint operations when the time comes to root out the terrorists in Afghanistan, and to root out terrorists elsewhere in the world. This is not just a fight against Osama bin Laden. It is a fight against all forms of terrorism, all terrorists around the world. I don't think there is any difficulty building that coalition. There is a distinction to be made I think between the coalition in the Gulf War -- that was strictly a military coalition -- that was the way that term was used at that time. The term as it is being used now is a very broad political international coalition of countries who are prepared to fight the war against terrorism through any means available to us, including the financial means we talked about earlier, intelligence sharing, et cetera. MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you in Rome. And now we return to Lisbon for more questions. Q: Good morning, Ambassador Jones, my name is -- (inaudible) -- I am from Lisbon daily Publico. My first question is about the scope of the American retaliation. Is overthrowing the Taliban regime in Afghanistan an objective of U.S. retaliation? And what do you expect it to be replaced with? AMB. JONES: Thank you for that question. No, the objective is to ensure that the foreign invader, the new foreign invader of Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden, is rooted out with his senior lieutenants. The goal there, as elsewhere in the world, is to ensure that terrorists no longer can threaten human lives they way they have been doing for some time, especially including September 11th. Q: Some European commentators blame U.S. foreign policy, especially in the Middle East, for breeding the sorts of radical Islamic fundamentalists who are probably behind the September 11 attacks. How do you respond to this criticism? AMB. JONES: U.S. policy in the Middle East, or elsewhere, we do not think is the cause of this at all. The definition of terrorism is people who perpetrate acts, criminal acts, against human beings, against innocent civilians. There are many, many ways to deal with the issues in the Middle East and elsewhere, through political dialogue, through diplomacy -- not through killing of innocent people in New York City. That does not solve any of the issues before us in the international community. That is a completely wrong assumption. Q: Ms. Jones, this is Eduardo Mascaraniz (ph) from Lisbon. Can you please give one evidence that bin Laden is behind these attacks? Just one? AMB. JONES: You're asking what is the evidence that bin Laden is behind this attack? Q: If you are able to give us one single evidence that bin Laden is behind these attacks. AMB. JONES: The intelligence organizations in the United States, various countries in Europe, Russia, Asia -- all around the world -- are working right now in compiling that evidence. I will leave that to be published when we are ready to publish it, when the international community is ready to publish it, which will be very shortly. I do not know when that will happen. But there is considerable evidence that is being compiled, and I can assure you that it will be made public and it will be convincing. Q: Ambassador Jones, China and Russia have concerns of their own about Islamic fundamentalism within their borders; namely Xinjiang and Chechnya. Will the current crisis mean that the U.S. will be more tolerant, more understanding, towards sometimes brutal ways with which Russia and China deal with Islamic insurgencies? AMB. JONES: The issue before us is removing the scourge of terrorism. We think there are ways to do that that are not harmful, that do not threaten the citizens of the countries or the areas in which these terrorists act. The goal is to get rid of the terrorists. It is clear from the speech that President Putin made yesterday that he is with the international community in furthering that goal. The Chinese government has said the same thing. But we believe that there is also great value to be placed on conducting a dialogue with the Chechens on the part of the Russian government, and with the Qighurs on the part of the Chinese government, in order to address the political issues, the social issues that have concerned those minorities in those areas. Q: Will the U.S. retaliation include military resources of its NATO allies, or is this still being discussed? AMB. JONES: The final planning is still underway. Certainly we are very grateful for the support of our NATO allies. It was unprecedented that NATO brought forward Article 5. It's the first time in the history of NATO that that has happened, the principle of collective self-defense. I can't tell you exactly what will be asked of any of our NATO allies, or of any of our other friends and allies who have joined the grand coalition against terrorism. But we will be -- we are in consultation with our allies, with others throughout the world, and we are very grateful for the support that they have offered up till now. Q: The Taliban regime (reported ?) yesterday a link with the Afghan situation and bin Laden and the African situation with the Middle East situation. How does the United States intend to deal with this double angle? AMB. JONES: There's no question that the issues in the Middle East are in urgent need of attention. The international community is working very closely with the Palestinians and with the Israelis to solve the Middle East problems. The European Union troika is on its way there. There are various other representatives that are in consultation or in touch with both sides in the Middle East. That is a completely separate matter from the terrorism that has been wrought by the bin Laden organization al Qaeda against Americans, against the embassies, the two American embassies in Africa. There are threats against various of our friends and allies around the world by this organization, and it is time to put an end to that. Q: (Off mike) -- well known refugee problem. How does the United States intend to support dealings with the refugee problem, especially in Pakistan and other surrounding countries? AMB. JONES: The refugee problem from refugees from Afghanistan is a very serious problem. It's been a very serious problem for over a dozen years. The United States government has provided $173 million worth of assistance to Afghanistan, to the people of Afghanistan, in order to address the very, very serious humanitarian problems in Afghanistan brought about by the terrible drought that has been underway there for several years now, and by the difficulties, the very severe difficulties that come during the winter when it's extremely cold and when the weather is so bad. There are U.S. organizations that are providing food assistance to the refugees moving across the border into Pakistan, and there is a lot of discussion underway right now as to how to do that for the Afghans who remain in Afghanistan. I would like to emphasize here that the international fight against terrorism is by no means against the Afghan people. It is against Osama bin Laden and the al Qaeda organization. Q: In 2000, the State Department included Iran among the list of countries that are among major sponsors of terrorism. Right now the British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw in in Tehran talking to Iranian leaders. Will this crisis mark a new relationship between the United States and Iran? AMB. JONES: I don't know whether there will be a new relationship between the United States and Iran. I think the important thing is to stay in touch with our friends and allies who can have conversations with the Iranian government, in order to underscore the importance of their stopping their support for terrorist organizations, such as Hezbollah and Hamas. Q: One last question for you, Ms. Jones. According to you, from now on what will change in the relationship between Russia and the United States and between Russia, the United States and the European Union? AMB. JONES: There is no question that President Putin has joined the rest of the international community in this war against terrorism, the global war against terrorism. But I think it's important to keep in mind that the United States and Russia were already forging a new relationship, starting principally with the meeting between President Putin and President Bush in Ljubljana in July, and followed up by the subsequent meeting in Genoa. There are other meetings that will be underway this fall as well between the two leaders. Russia has stood clearly on the side of the fight against terrorism; but the United States' relationship with Russia is much broader than that -- we have any number of economic initiatives underway; we are working in terms of a new strategic framework between the United States and Russia relative to the ABM Treaty. We look forward to enhancing the cooperation and strengthening the cooperation between the United States and Russia, just as we are very much enthusiastic and supportive of the enhancement of the relationship between Russia and the European Union. MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you in Lisbon for those questions. Paris, hello once again. Q: (Off mike) -- war, which is different from a traditional war -- it was the case 10 years ago in the Gulf War against Iraq. So it is going to be an intelligence war, underground war? So you put this coalition up? Right now you are building up this coalition. But who are, according to you, your most reliable allies in this intelligence war? Are they the British? What do you expect from other countries who are allies, but not so good allies as the British -- I speak of France, or Italy or other European countries? AMB. JONES: We have an extremely good exchange of intelligence and fundamental cooperation from many, many, many countries around the world. I wouldn't like to say that one is ahead of the other, because the fact of the matter is the terrible thing that happened to so many of us on September 11th -- after all, there were more than 30 countries who citizens were brutally killed in the World Trade Center on September 11th -- and I would like to take the opportunity at this moment to express the condolences of the American people for that terrible loss of life from so many of your countries as well. The strength of cooperation between our intelligence services, and among all the intelligence services, has been really overwhelming. And it has been clear to all of us that we individually know a lot more than we thought, if we can only put all the pieces together that will help us draw a picture of the al Qaeda organization and other terrorist organizations, so that we know how to go after them, both in terms of eliminating them, but also in terms of eliminating their sources of financial support. Q: One tough question, Mrs. Ambassador. As a friend of the United States, and being myself a representative journalist from the Occidental world, I just wonder if today all of us united we are not paying the price of some of our political and strategic mistakes in the past. Let me be clear. Don't you think that the roots of our problem today date back for instance to 1978, when at the G-8 or -- it was not G-8 -- it was the G-7 summit in -- (inaudible) -- former U.S. President Jimmy Carter with French former President Giscard d'Estaing, James Callahan for Great Britain, Chancellor Schmidt for Germany, decided to drop -- to stop backing the Iranian regime of the shah and decided to deal with Ayatollah Khomeneni, whom they did not know, and saying I think that Khomeneni was the beginning of the making of Muslim fundamentalist groups all over the world. And then the same Jimmy Carter decided to back Muslim fundamentalists against the pro-Soviet regime of Kabul in Afghanistan. So don't you think we should have now drawn the lessons of the past and have a more (clear ?) foreign policy in this area? AMB. JONES: I don't agree with you. I think you are drawing conclusions that are difficult to draw. First of all, just a point that I think is important. The international support for the mujaheddin in Afghanistan predated any appearance of bin Laden or some of the -- some of his organization in Afghanistan. That was -- they came later. But that's almost neither here nor there. The important thing is that it is completely unacceptable in the international community for there to be organizations whose goal is to kill civilians. That is unacceptable. Q: Now, I have been told -- I was recently in Washington when we saw the president -- I was with my own president, President Chirac. I have been told that there are some people inside the U.S. administration who would be attempted to finish with Saddam Hussein -- the job which has not been finished by former president George Bush, the father. Is that -- (inaudible) -- or are we going to focus on Afghanistan, or do some people have in mind to really get rid of Saddam Hussein too, to put that on the table? AMB. JONES: No. The goal here is to go after international terrorist organizations. And we are not -- this is not against Afghanistan -- it's against the al Qaeda organization that happens to be harbored by the Taliban in Afghanistan. This is not a fight against the Afghan people by any means at all. It's also not a fight against Muslim peoples or the Islamic religion. This is a fight against terrorists. What religion they are or what nationality they are is irrelevant. The point is that they are using completely unacceptable means to make what they call their political -- provide their political message. That is a completely abhorrent way to provide a political message. It is unacceptable, whatever the reasons are, to kill civilians for whatever goals these organizations may espouse. Q: Do you think that all these military operations which are underway, and which everybody understands, and we agree, might put into danger some of the moderate Arabic regimes -- and I am thinking of President Mubarak of Egypt, whom I interviewed yesterday, or King Abdullah of Jordan, who are faithful, reliable allies of United States or the Occidental world? And they have to face too inside their own respective countries the rise of Muslim fundamentalism. So are you surprised when they say they don't want -- they are very careful -- they don't want to give a blank check to the coalition or to the United States. AMB. JONES: There is nobody who is being asked to provide a blank check for anything. All that we are asking -- all that the international community is asking is that countries take sides. You're either against terrorism and against harboring against terrorists, or you are not. There is no question that these are difficult issues for many countries in the world. The two countries you mentioned, Jordan and Egypt -- President Mubarak and the King of Jordan are very close friends and allies of the United States, and we are in very close conversations, very detailed conversations with them about how best to prosecute the global fight against terrorism. The United States will be extremely careful to work in ways that support the international goals of the international community. MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you in Paris for those questions. We move along now to Rome once again. Q: Good morning, Ambassador Jones, (inaudible) -- 5, Italian TV. I just wanted to ask you something about the war. This is going to be -- President Bush said that this is going to be a very long war -- could be a very long war -- it is going to be a different war, a war using the intelligence forces. But I was -- I am asking now is this going to be a fighting war as well? I mean, are you thinking of invading Afghanistan if this is necessary? I mean, are you -- how is the United States thinking of getting bin Laden? AMB. JONES: I am not really able to address military planning. First of all, the military planning is still underway. Secondly, this isn't an invasion of a country. This is an effort to root out terrorists in various parts of the world, including in parts of Afghanistan. But there is no talk of invasion. That would be inappropriate; it's not necessary, and it's not the way the United States and its allies and friends around the world are going to operate. Q: Do you think it's possible that some American troops, or maybe troops of different countries, could go inside the Afghanistan territory? AMB. JONES: I think the best way to address that president is the way the vice president -- Vice President Cheney addressed it a little while ago. This is going to be a war in the shadows. I can't tell you -- I honestly don't know exactly how it is going to prosecuted. It has to be done very carefully. It has to be done deliberately. The focus now is on making sure that we have all of the intelligence that speaks to the horrible crime that was committed on September 11th, and the crimes that have been committed previously against the two American embassies and against the U.S.S. Cole. There are many other elements to the al Qaeda organization that are very worrisome. We are under very intense discussions with many, many countries around the world through their intelligence services and police services to determine what else might be planned, what else might be underway, so that we can fight back those battles as well -- especially before they kill any more innocent human beings. Q: Yes, ambassador, a question about the financial support for terrorists. Have you any evidence for support of any government, any countries to bin Laden? AMB. JONES: As I mentioned earlier, there is a lot of work underway to determine that. President Bush just signed an executive order yesterday to put into place many measures to go after exactly that, the basis of the financial support for terrorist organizations. It's the kind of thing that the European Union Treasury ministers, finance ministers, addressed in their meeting last week, and will continue to address. There's a package -- they have put forward a package of legislative changes in order to address those questions. I think it will be very important to use all of the tools that we can come up with, that we can devise, in order to get at the financial support of these networks. Whether there is a particular government behind all this, that still remains to be determined through the intelligence services that are working together now. Q: President Bush is trying to work out a sort of coalition with the ex-Soviet republics. How is it working out? Are they going to offer logistic support to the United States? AMB. JONES: Those discussions are very much underway. Those discussions are not discussions that I am at liberty to reveal. But it is clear that the countries of Central Asia, the Caucasus, the Balkans, Ukraine -- all of these countries very much put themselves on the side of the line in support of the international fight against global terrorism. But exactly what each country is prepared to do remains a subject between the allies and them. Q: Ambassador Jones, how is it possible that CIA and the American intelligence had no evidence at all of what was going to happen? I mean, there was a lack of something, maybe of the information, of responsibility, of someone -- I mean, a lot of people were living in the United States, they were training. And I heard, and it was in the newspapers, that somebody know that or heard that there would have been an attack in the United States in maybe New York or whatever. I mean, is it possible that the CIA didn't know anything about it? AMB. JONES: I think there is no question that all of us wish, including our colleagues in intelligence agencies -- all of us wish that it would have been possible to prevent the attacks that occurred on September 11th -- there's no question about that. I think the thing that needs to be focused on now is how to work together more comprehensively in the future to prevent any recurrence of the terrible attacks that happened on the 11th of September. That's where the focus should be. That's where the focus is. Q: Mrs. Ambassador, are you working to a political coalition of Afghanistan parties, democratic parties, to fight a political war against Taliban, or after the Taliban regime? AMB. JONES: We have had some programs in place in order to support democracy, to support pluralism in Afghanistan, through development of non-governmental organizations, through some of the education work that we have been doing. It's been harder to do since the Taliban came in. But that has not stopped the effort to provide assistance to the Afghan people as best as we have been able to. Q: (inaudible) -- ex-king -- do you think he can play a role, a political role in the future of Afghanistan? AMB. JONES: I don't know if he can play a role. Certainly we think it's important for Afghans, particularly ones who have some international name, to speak out at this time, to address the question of the future of Afghanistan, to address the question of the kind of government that should be available, that should prevail in Afghanistan. The Afghan people have been through years and years of warfare. They deserve a good government. They deserve peace. They deserve to have the freedom to go about their work lives and their personal lives without the kinds of threats that they have been under for many years now. Q: Probably bin Laden knew the response of the United States and of all Europe and many other countries would have been very, very strong. Now, you do expect a retaliation for this from bin Laden and his organization? I mean, how are you facing this? AMB. JONES: It's frankly very difficult to talk in hypotheticals. The focus right now is on finding ways to root out terrorism, terrorist organizations throughout the world -- this one included, the al Qaeda organization as well. Of course the goal is to eliminate them so that they can't do anything again either to the Afghan people, to any of the peoples in the region, to Americans, to Europeans, to Asians, so that they cannot again threaten to kill or kill innocent civilians. Q: Do you have any timing of when there is going to be a sort of attack -- people say it may be in the weekend -- or is it going to be soon? Or do you think it will take time for the coalition to be stronger? AMB. JONES: The coalition is already very strong. The coalition has already begun the attack, if you want to put it that way, have long since begun. It began right after September 11th with the U.N. Security Council passing a very, very strong resolution. The U.N. General Assembly's first resolution condemned the acts of terror and allowed for the international support that has followed. NATO, European Union, et cetera, have already joined the coalitions, as have many, many, many countries around the world. The kinds of actions that have already been undertaken by finance ministers, by justice ministers, by President Bush yesterday in signing the executive order -- that's all part of the attack. MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you very much. Let's go back now to Lisbon once more for another question. Q: Ambassador Jones, as President Bush said, we are in this for the long haul. But how long will it be? Will arresting bin Laden bring some sort of closure, or is the Western world into some sort of new Cold War -- one that goes on without ordinary citizens noticing, and will probably go on for the rest of our lives? AMB. JONES: No, this is by no means a new cold war. This is an international effort to end terrorism. One of my colleagues compared it with the international effort centuries ago in getting rid of pirates -- pirates on the high seas. It took a long time. But the international -- the countries who needed to use the high seas safely got together and after many years were able to succeed in getting rid of the Barbary pirates. I can't tell you when this war is going to end. I have no idea. I don't think anybody has any idea. But the bottom line is that it is time to end the threat of terrorists. There is no longer room for any terrorist organizations in the world. Q: Ambassador Jones, being responsible for European affairs in the Bush administration, would you say that after posing so suddenly the focus on the security environment the European Union should put on hold their enlargement process and rethink its own policy? AMB. JONES: To be very honest, that's not the kind of thing that I would really like to address. It's not the business of the United States what the European Union decides to do about enlargement or not. However, the United States has been very supportive of the enlargement process. But it's not an appropriate time I think for me to comment on what the European Union decides to do about that. MR. FOUCHEUX: All right, we thank you very much in Lisbon. Let's return to Paris once more. Q: Ambassador Jones, one of the Islamic terrorist nests in Europe is Germany, and especially alluding to the mosque of the city of Hamburg, where between '79 and '81 the imam of the mosque was former Iranian President Rafsanjani. From '81 to '83 the imam of the mosque is president of Iran today, Ayatollah Khatami. And I see that Iran is trying to play with United States today as soft game, mild games, mild eyes, because they hate the Taliban, they hate the Afghan regime. So they are on your black list. Can you trust the Iranians, this regime which has been one of the financial backers, fuelers of Muslim fundamentalism and Islamic terrorism? AMB. JONES: This is one of those incidences in which what is done is what is important, and what the international community will be watching is whether Iran does sever its support, end its support, to terrorist organizations. Q: Ambassador Jones, what are the risks, if there are any, of this entire operation? I mean, what are we afraid of? AMB. JONES: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the beginning of your question. What are the risks? Q: If there are any in this entire operation. I mean, what is the United States -- I mean, there are some risks doing this -- could be like you know if we fail something, what we shouldn't fail in this sort of unusual war. AMB. JONES: I think the risks are far greater if we sit back and say that there isn't anything that can be done. These are relentless organizations, relentless people. We have all seen the kinds of things that they are prepared to do. We have all agreed that it's unacceptable for them to be allowed to continue. And it's time to root them out. It's time to end their ability to function. The risks as I say are far greater to inaction. MR. FOUCHEUX: Let's return once again to Lisbon. Q: Ambassador Jones, let me go back again to the position of some moderate Arab countries, or Islamic countries, some of them in northern Africa. Similarly, European countries, like Muslim of course -- (inaudible) -- European Union -- are talking to the moderate Islamic countries, explaining to them that this is not a crusade, a new crusade against Islam obviously. But according to the United States, will this be better for these countries to stay behind the scenes or actually come forward and show to the Islamic world what's -- (inaudible) -- this? AMB. JONES: You are speaking about countries that have already taken a position. They have all put themselves on the side of the countries of the international group that has decided that terrorism is a terrible thing to allow to continue. How they express that support, the elements of their participation, is entirely up to them. The important thing is that they are on the side of all of the countries that are fighting global terrorism. Q: Ambassador Jones, going back to the issue of closure on the war against terrorism, will dismantling bin Laden's al Qaeda be the end of it, or is it going to be just the first step in this new war? AMB. JONES: When we talk about a global war against terrorism, it means a global war against all terrorism. It doesn't just mean the al Qaeda organization. So that won't be the end of it, no. Q: This fight against global terrorism will imply I am sure tremendous efforts. Do you think it will still be possible to have a focus on helping the developing countries? And what will they think about this situation if the focus goes elsewhere -- and focus on the efforts naturally? AMB. JONES: There continues to be a tremendous focus on the humanitarian issues, the democracy issues, the economic issues that are important to many, many countries around the world. That is a very, very strong focus of the international community, including the United States. For instance, there is a tremendous effort underway to make sure that Afghan refugees and Afghans inside the country are able to eat. That's just something that is underway right this minute. But we have -- the international community, the United States, have huge programs all over the world to help those countries help themselves become better citizens of the world, to become -- to be able to enjoy the fruits of freedom -- freedom of choice, choosing their own governments, having the economic means to enjoy prosperity, to be able to earn a decent wage. There are huge programs underway, and none of that focus will change. If anything, it will increase. MR. FOUCHEUX: And we return to Paris once more for another question. Q: Yes, Ambassador Jones, do you think it's probably a good thing that the U.S. military presence might be a little bit longer than expected in this area -- Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India -- if you have a way of controlling the evolution of the situation? I mean, Pakistan is having the first Muslim nuclear bomb. India is having the bomb too. So it would be a way for the United States and its allies to control these two warring countries in certain ways, and at the same time all this area is oil road which is at stake at the same time. AMB. JONES: No, that's completely wrong. You are very much overdrawing what's going on here. There's no discussion of American troops being in India, Pakistan or Afghanistan, certainly not in any long-term way. There may be use of transit points or something like that. But that would be completely overdrawing the situation here. There is no effort underway whatsoever for the United States to take advantage of this situation in any way related to oil, related to anything else. That would be a ridiculous assertion. This is a battle against terrorism. It is going to be done in the shadows. It's not going to be -- it is probably not going to be a major all-out campaign such as we saw in the Gulf War. This is different. This is what the president has said over and over again. It is what the secretary of Defense has said over and again, what the secretary of State has said over and again. It's what NATO has said over and over again. This is not the same thing. MR. FOUCHEUX: We are just about to finish our program, ambassador. Would you care to make some closing comments before we get out of here? AMB. JONES: Thank you very much. I really appreciate your questions. I appreciate the honesty of your questions, and I hope you appreciate the efforts we have underway to try to be as frank and direct as possible. Thank you. MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you very much for your time in joining us today. It was a fascinating conversation. For more information on the war against global terrorism, access the World Wide Web at www.usinfo.state.gov. A special thanks once again to Ambassador Elizabeth Jones for joining us today, as well as all of our participants in Lisbon, Paris and Rome, and to all of you watching. From Washington, for "Dialogue," I am Rick Foucheux, good day. (end transcript) (Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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